Making nanny redundant - on maternity leave?

[ChatBFP]

My nanny is pregnant. I really like her, but as my kids are getting older it is unlikely that I will replace her like for like when she goes on maternity leave. I suspect we will each take some more annual/unpaid leave, swap with friends, grandparents will help, we will use holiday clubs etc.

At what point do I tell her this? It would be a genuine redundancy situation, so my instinct would be to make her redundant earlier in maternity (I'd obvs still be liable for maternity pay an that would be fine) rather than waiting until the end so that she would have certainty about getting another job.

Same issue if I get a nanny to help who does fewer hours - I'd assume that I would tell her early on that I am giving her replacement more limited role and that it would be likely that the more limited role only would be available on her return and probably not with baby in tow due to nature of role/household?

I will ask the nanny agency and payroll agency for advice and get a solicitor if needed, but I assume that the hive mind of mumsnet should be able to give me some pointers. Thank you in advance!

And I should say that I am not trying to game the system on this - my assumption is that a nanny would want to know asap what the situation will be about returning when I know what the "replacement care" looks like, but if that really isn't the case then I am happy to be told!

Don’t forget she will accumulate holiday while on maternity and you’ll need to pay this also. I was a nanny made redundant on maternity leave. And no, I don’t think you can tell her early on actually, because she has every right to return to her job as it was, it is protected whilst she is on maternity leave. You can only make her redundant at the end of this or when she gives you notice that she is wanting to return. You then begin the official process of redundancy if her job no longer exists, but you have to offer her the job in its current form first. So if you scale the hours back for example, or change the days, you offer THAT role to her. If she doesn’t then want it, you make her redundant.

@Skinnermarink

Oh absolutely I would offer her the limited role - of course. And I would assume she could come back to it at any point unless she declined in writing.

If I had no role to offer at all, then I have to keep the job open in theory for potentially a whole year and then serve her with redundancy? That's fine. I assume that in whatever case it is still kinder to tell her it is coming even if legally I am "keeping it open" though?

There is also no way I will contemplate return with baby, just due to number and ages of kids involved. I assume that telling her this early is kinder? I would of course keep open the opportunity for her of finding childcare for baby and returning.

And all the literature I have seen suggests that you can make an employee genuinely redundant on maternity leave

maternityaction.org.uk/advice/redundancy-during-pregnancy-and-maternity-leave/#:~:text=You%20can%20be%20made%20redundant,pay%20and%2For%20notice%20pay.

Of course, for us full redundancy that would only be the case if we didn't employ a temp at all, which is possible (ie if we plan to rely on grandparents and holiday camps permanently, which would mean there isn't a paid position going).

You absolutely CAN make an employee redundant while they are on Mat leave as long as their pregnancy doesn’t play a part in your decision.
I am not an employment lawyer so check with one (or similar) but I know a few people it happened to

It’s up to you what you tell her but legally yes, you do keep the job open until she gives notice, says she wants to return on X date or it’s the end of her leave. She will not reveal her intentions too early though I wouldn’t have thought because a) she will have no idea what her life will look like with a baby to think about yet and b) she will be silly not to hang on to get the accumulated holiday pay paid out. My former employer was fair in the end but there was a lot of ‘I’m sure it won’t be practical for you to come back’ and ‘surely the commute will be too much for you now you have a baby to get back to etc’ I presume this was because it would be far less hassle for her if I simply handed in my notice. I wasn’t going to do that. So I think you do need to go by the book and tread carefully.

Surely if there is no job to come back to due to kids being older then she would leave when she goes on ml?

Also let her know that you wouldn't want her to come back with baby

Obv pay her smp

Thanks @Hoppinggreen and @Skinnermarink

Yes, I think I can make her genuinely redundant if no genuinely no job left whilst on maternity leave.

I will absolutely at least reduce the job when she is on maternity leave as I am already having to give her too many hours really for what I need term time so if I can find a replacement for fewer hours that everyone is happy with, I will. If nanny wants to spend a year on maternity leave accruing holiday and pretending she is willing to return without baby in tow (which I know will not happen as nanny has kids already) then that is fine - I'll pay holiday and wait.

But why would she? She’s potentially doing herself out of thousands of pounds of redundancy and holiday pay that is rightfully hers as an employment benefit. Would you do the same in your job?

I will add that I certainly didn’t ‘pretend’ I wanted to return at the end of my maternity leave- I genuinely wanted to keep my options open as was my right- and see what the ‘new’ job might look like. On maternity leave with a small baby is not a great time to job hunt, so I appreciated having the breathing space that I was entitled to. As it was I got made redundant and picked up a new job in the same week so all was good.

You need to get proper advice from the Nanny Agency or payroll agency. I was made redundant whilst on mat leave, but this was years ago, so not sure what the rules are now. I was told my job didn’t exist anymore, but your Nanny's job will still exist, albeit less hours.

Yes, Nanny Tax or Nanny Paye have lots of good advice if you use either of those.

Thanks @Mindymomo - I don't actually know if it will or not exist, all depends what replacement childcare looks like and if clubs and grandparents are sufficient etc. I'm just trying to work through all the options.

@Skinnermarink sorry, I didn't mean to sound blunt or callous. But there is absolutely no way that my nanny will return if I don't let her bring baby. That is all I meant. Of course she can return to the more limited job and I will ensure she is kept in the loop as to what it might look like.

This is factually incorrect. You categorically can make a nanny or any employee redundant while on maternity leave.

There are really strict rules around making employees redundant on maternity leave or when pregnant (and yes, a nanny has every right to be considered an employee the same as anyone else employed and on a payroll) hence the need to tread very carefully.

For your sake and her’s please get yourself some proper paid for advice and don’t ask here. There are 100 opinions but not necessarily any actual knowledge. Several things already stated as fact on this thread just aren’t true.

@Skinnermarink totally agree - there are strict rules around redundancy full stop, even more so when on maternity leave, but to the poster claiming you couldn't make someone redundant whilst on maternity leave - this is totally untrue. You can, you just have to do it properly and for the correct reasons.

she wouidnt do her self out of redundancy

as job isn’t there

so she will get redundancy and smp from
op

Tricky though because her job might well still be there- just not the same hours or conditions potentially. However she would still legally need to be given first refusal on the new role.

Thanks all. Yes, I will get paid advice - I've navigated quite a lot of tricky employment stuff in the years I have employed a nanny - nannies are of course employees, but what is different here @Skinnermarink is that unlike in a business where the job will likely be done by someone and the law requires you to give it back, it is quite possible that my nanny's job will be done by no one when she is on maternity leave, in that I won't have an employee covering it and my husband and I are covering it with non-nanny options. If that turns out to be the case, I will make my nanny redundant as soon as possible because it seems ridiculous to pretend there is still a job there if there isn't.

I was made redundant just as I was beginning my maternity leave, strategically I believe so I didn’t go over working two years to require redundancy pay and also so I didn’t accrue holiday whilst on maternity.

I never thought of this situation (kids too young, no need for a nanny). Surely that's a huge financial pressure on parents, having to pay a nanny while they take up to a year of mat leave while also paying for childcare during this time?

Part and parcel of making the decision to have a nanny. And as a ‘small business employer’, they claim the statutory maternity pay back. Thankfully nannies are entitled to the same employment rights as anyone else. They also care for your most precious possessions- there’s no excuse not to do things by the book.

(Not saying that OP isn’t at all but many nanny employers try to get around all sorts)

The family claims the smp oh back off the government

So they aren't out of pocket

A nanny is an employee and as the same rights as any other employer worker