Charged more for additional hours than private payer

[Confusedmum84123]

Hello!

Just wanted to sense check something please. So we have a 2year old and a 4year old. We pay the full cost for childcare for our 2year old. For our 4 year old we get 30 funded hours a week. We started a new nursery in January following our childminder having to close. I had asked for a stretch agreement to be set up, but it wasn't and I've now got a back dated bill.

We don't pay anything for the funded hours..
But for any additional hours they charge alot more than they do for the hours my 2year old/ or any private payer would pay. I was aware of it before we joined the nursery but to be honest, it was a bit of a rush as the childminder had to close unexpectedly and we needed to find somewhere quickly to have them both.

So for my 2yr old it's £54.85 per day ( up to 10hrs, so £5.48/hr. Cost is for 2-5yr olds.
But for the hours over the 30 my 4yr old has, they charge £8.65(policy states up to 3hrs/day). They do three days per week.

Is that normal? Or allowed?

Many thanks,
Confused mum!! Xx

I don’t get it, do they charge you £8.65 on each funded day? What’s the up to 3 hour thing? Does your 4 year old attend outside term time when it’s not funded too?

Yes sorry. So the stretch agreement means instead of using the 30hours just in term time they spread them over the whole year. So on one day she'll have some funded hours and then three chargeable hours. Thanks

Is that £8.58 per hour for 3 hours a day and then multiplied by 3 days?

I would expect if they charge hourly for them to have a policy for an hourly rate.

But some nurseries do charge for a session, a whole day or hourly. And they will offer different rates dependent on what you want to cover the cost of staffing ratios.

For funded hours this is often because the amount of funding they get is less than their hourly charge in general. So instead of charging you a per hour top up they charge a greater hourly rate for extended hours.m

Yes, so we do three days, so 3x £8.65x3 per week. So £311.40 for a 4week month.

It just seems really off that they can charge you more per hour that other people, just because you've used up your funded hours 🤷‍♀️ thanks

Its because the Government pays less than the actual operating costs. The Nursery then needs to make up the shortfall from elsewhere or not offer the free hours at all.

Do they actually have an hourly rate for non-funded people? As usually nurseries are booked in sessions?
My childminder had a daily rate which was cheaper then her hourly rate, it encouraged people to take a full day place as she can’t fill odd hours around shorter places.

Er yes they're underfunded but they can't make it up by charging people using funding more per hour!

OP if they really are charging more per hour for people using funded places, no they can't. Check your local authority policy and if still confused, call the LA. I'm trying to think of how the nursery might be doing this legitimately but I can't.

They can charge what they like, it was stated in their contract so they are allowed to do it, doesn’t make it fair necessarily though I agree. Some nursery’s charge less per hour for over 3s, some charge more for the stretched hours, it’s not unheard of. I imagine the rate varies because they charge a full ‘day rate’ for those not funded, compared to OP who is paying by the hour for less hours so the rate is higher.

Every nursery seems to call it different, whether it's fees for food, sundries, lunch cover or just upping their rate. What it comes down to is they can't afford to look after your child and all of the others for £4 an hour, or whatever they get, so need to find the difference.

Yes they're allowed to do this but also it seems like you're paying a daily rate (which are often cheaper anyway) for the younger one and then hourly for the older one (as it's not a full day obvs).

Remember the 'funding' is seriously underfunded and nurseries desperately need to claw back their losses too. We're at serious risk of a major childcare shortage when (if) the childcare for younger children comes in.

Everyone runs their nurseries differently. We had the same thing, one child has 30 free hours the other is too young for that and private payer. The difference in their bills was £100. (£2.5k for four full days for both.) I took them out and put them in a different nursery that has a different policy. I understand the funding by the government isnt sufficient but I think some nurseries are taking the mick to be honest.

Could they not use the funded hours for 2 full days per week and then you pay day rate for one day a week? Rather than paying the more expensive hourly rate.

It's quite common for nurseries to charge less per hour for a 'day rate' or 'session rate' than for each individual hour.

So you're paying £25 a day? I think this is quite standard, whether it's a consumables fee/ lunch fee/ something else. They just can't afford to look after your child otherwise. The hours really are subsidised, not free.

The free hours have to be delivered free. I agree that nurseries are underfunded, but there are rules about how the free entitlement is used.

But £8.65 for 3 hours would be £2.89 an hour.

I must be missing something.

They are free it's the additional hours that are being charged. If the nursery has a day rate it will be a cheaper rate the nursery can set its own rate and in this case it chooses a higher hourly rate than what the day rate equates to....understandably.

I suspect it’s a quantity discount you are getting by paying for up to 10 hrs, you’ve been given a discounted rate of £5.48/hr. Then for 1-3hrs the rate is £8.65/hr.

Makes perfect sense to me.