Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

CM CLUB - advice about breast-fed baby starting and how to help mum........

40 replies

looneytune · 13/02/2008 14:16

I have baby starting on Monday who will be 8 weeks old by then. The baby is currently breast fed on demand with formula feed(s) at night from a bottle. The baby is used to bottles for both breast milk and formula.

Now the mum is going to carry on breastfeeding and hopes to be able to express for when baby is with me (nearly 5 hours, 2 days a week). I explained that of course when breastfeeding, we never know how much baby is having and also on demand meaning no routine in place (I wouldn't expect there to be!). So, I suggested that she brings several sterilised empty bottles, plus the milk in something sterilised so that I can pour little bits of milk into bottles as and when needed until we work out roughly how much baby is wanting each time.

Is there anything else anyone can advise? Anything I can suggest to mum to help? She said she wakes up very full in the morning (I remember that!) so suggested she maybe try and express then, maybe after feeding baby first? I said whenever she does it, it's best to be relaxed and not feeling rushed to produce the milk as the stress can cause problems with expressing. I also suggested that maybe she express some the evening before if she's formula feeding baby then - thought maybe help with the supply?

I'm just wondering if there is anything else I should think of? I've just had a thought that what if baby gets hungry and the expressed milk runs out? I would never normally suggest this but if mum is doing formula at night, should I suggest maybe bringing some formula powder/cartons of milk to use in EMERGENCY????

That's it really, just want to make everything runs as smoothly as possible whilst we are unsure of what baby needs.

TIA

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

frannikin · 13/02/2008 14:21

Definitely advise expressing in the morning - milk is better quality then too. Also when expressing having the baby there or a photo of the baby can help with milk production. Expressing in the evening will help with supply but she'll end up feeling even fuller in the morning which is worth bearing in mind!

Cartons of formula for emergency use is probably a good idea too.

PillockOfTheCommunity · 13/02/2008 14:23

I'd point her in the direction of Mumsnet, there are lots of threads with advice on this situation that might help her

hunkermunker · 13/02/2008 14:25

Frannikin, that's not true about milk being better quality in the morning, I'm afraid.

I'll see what I can come up with re the rest, but just wanted to say that

MrsBadger · 13/02/2008 14:36

Is the mum able to express during the day at work? Not only might it be easier than trying to express and look after her ds at the same time but it'll stop her getting too engorged and leaky during the day.

If not I found it easiest to express from one side while dd had the first feed of the day on the other - she is much better at stimulating letdown than a pump!
I'd also consider not expressing on the two mornings she works as it'll be hassle enough getting up and out the house without pumping too - better to do it on mornings she's at home and not pushed for time.

Has she a stock (however small) of ebm in her freezer already that she could transfer to yours for 'emergencies' rather than give him formula?
In fact it might be easier for her to bring you ebm frozen in small quantities so she an exprerss at her convenience and anything not thawed can be kept in 'stock' rather than sent back and forth...

hunker is the real expert though

frannikin · 13/02/2008 14:38

Surely it is if she's had all night resting to produce it. It contains lower levels of stress hormones therefore better for baby.

If not you may wish to contact my university tutors and tell them they've been teaching generations of midwives wrongly.

MrsBadger · 13/02/2008 14:41

But milk isn't stored untouched in the breasts all night like (er) urine is in the bladder.

kiskidee · 13/02/2008 14:42

I used to take expressed milk frozen to the nursery and leave it stored in their freezer. At first she can try storing them in 2oz sizes and see how it goes. She can always increase the size later on if the baby is taking more than 2oz at one go.

EBM does not have to be thrown away after an hour like formula. Indeed dd would sip on a bottle of ebm for 2 or 3 hrs in an afternoon while at nursery.

it is better to defrost ebm at room temp, failing that if it is needed faster, in a tub of warm (like bath water), not hot water.

I would take one bottle of ebm, normally pumped the night before cold, straight out of the fridge and knew that by say 10 am when she was hungry it would be at room temp - or some babies take it cold.

kiskidee · 13/02/2008 14:44

unfortuneately frannikin, your uni tutor is teaching tosh as far as bm is concerned.

kiskidee · 13/02/2008 14:45

point them in the direction of MN, please.

frannikin · 13/02/2008 14:52

I've still been taught a rested body will produce better milk with lower levels of cortisol etc than someone who has been running around doing things all day. You may think this is an old wives tale but if it's what they're marking me on in my exams then I'm sticking by it! I'm certain there have been studies into it too or they wouldn't be saying it (I hope).

Also you are more likely to be better hydrated in the morning (assuming you've woken up and had a drink) than at the end of the day when you're running around and sweating a lot.

Anyway I think a lot of factors conspire meaning that morning milk is better in quality (and quantity) than milk produced at the end of the day.

frannikin · 13/02/2008 14:54

Will definitely shove them in this direction and sit back with popcorn while you all fight it out.

kiskidee · 13/02/2008 14:54

no wonder midwives are so crap at bf support.

but stick with your answers if those will get you the marks! I'd do the same as you!

kiskidee · 13/02/2008 14:54

midwives are generally so crap...

(there are a few knowledgeable ones here on MN)

Lulumama · 13/02/2008 14:57

so, mothers need to lie down and not be stressed to have good quality milk am not an expert, but everything io have read leads me to believe that that is not the case

the human body is incredible at adapting and can make milk for singeltons, twins, triplets, for tandem feeding, relactation after a break in breastfeeding

if BF was so precarious that a mother had to be stress free and well rested to produce good quality milk, i thikn women would have stopped lactating centuries ago.

it makes no sense, especially as women have broken sleep with babies, and there is more prolactin at night, to increase milk supply to make sure supply meets demand, so sleeping. resting all night is not that great for breastfeeding in the early stages

it is not beyond the realms of possibiliites for a lecturer or HCP to be wrong about how breastfeeding works

look at all the duff advice talked about here on mN !

frannikin · 13/02/2008 14:57

Right, so accepting I'm going to say that on my exam because they think it's right. What do you think is right?

Lulumama · 13/02/2008 14:58

but by all means if that is what will get you marks in the exam great, but i don;t thikn it is advice worth following in RL

kiskidee · 13/02/2008 15:00

lulu, I wish mothers did need to lie down to make good quality bm, dh would then allow me to stay home and rest instead of going to work everyday!

hunkermunker · 13/02/2008 15:01

I will point Tiktok in the direction of this thread.

Lulumama · 13/02/2008 15:01

there is sooooooooo much misinformation about breastfeeding

and confusion and conflicting advice

but i would take hunker's word , i'm afraid, as she is IMO an expert, who has proven her breast feeding credentials.

good luck with your exmas , franniking, and apologies to looney for the hijack!

hunkermunker · 13/02/2008 15:02

Ooh, no, I'm not an expert!

I'm just gobby and read a lot

Lulumama · 13/02/2008 15:06

well, you had me fooled

frannikin · 13/02/2008 15:12

Whoa (sorry Looney, one last point) I didn't say milk was rubbish if mother was stressed - I said it was better if she wasn't, and I honestly can't see how that's wrong.

crace · 13/02/2008 15:13

Sorry I had to laugh at being rested makes more milk. They haven't met my daughter then .. she who never slept and therefore I never slept but I still had a good supply. Probably as I was an all night milk bar!

LT - sorry this has turned into a weird BF thread. I think you are giving her good advice, and I sure she will figure it out. I would just get some extra formula on hand especially if baby is used to it. Can you do some settling in trials before?

soremummy · 13/02/2008 15:17

Just reading this thread I have a fab idea.. I can now tell my dh I just have to lie down all day and get loads of sleep at night so I can feed my lo and cos she needs extra calories think i might convince him just need to figure out how to copy and paste stuff to make it look offical

kiskidee · 13/02/2008 15:24

very briefly frannikin, the difference in quality of bm between time of day, foods we eat including whether we are well fed or undernourished, hydrated or not, location on the planet, race, whether we smoke or not etc, is so miniscule it is an irrelevant part of the discussion. Breastmilk has evolved over eons to make it the perfect food for a baby because of all stresses the human race as a whole have already been through. I don't think a woman's day job would be any harder than what 2million years of human evolution has already encountered as far as 'having a hard day'.

Her milk is always going to be far better for her baby than a substitute which I think you know(not demonising formula here). So saying express in the morning because blah, blah, is another piece of consideration that is unnecessary to make as it just adds, 'another thing' for her to stress about. It makes breastfeeding seem like it requires some sort of special (meaning extra work)arrangement for it to be successful. It certainly doesn't.

Flip

1 2