Nanny off sick again - is it unreasonable to be a bit cross?

[ragtaggle]

I like and respect my nanny so I really want to find out whether I'm being unreasonable here....it's possible that I am being as I'm not very tolerant of sick days, rarely taking them myself. All opinions gratefully received.

Here's the background - I went back to work in August ( when ds was twelve months) and hired a nanny who me and dh have been very pleased with. We like her a lot - she's very bright and has loads of common sense - and my ds seems to like her too.

Me and dh both work f/t - we pay our nanny the top London rate for five ten hour days. We are freelance so if we have an unexpected week day off we give her the day off no questions asked (We pay her on those occasions) We are never late and - in most cases - are actually early. Because of the nature of our jobs she has quite a late start by nanny standards - 9.00 - and when she gets here ds is dressed, fed and ready for the day. I think it's fair to say that we are always respectful and inclusive and never condescending (As a SAHM for twelve months I have nothing but respect for anyone who stays at home and I know it's a demanding job) In short, working for us is, I think, pretty easy.

Anyway, in the four months she has been here my ds, dh and her have been passing a nasty cold between them. Six weeks ago my nanny took three days off with this cold which led into the weekend. I know it was a bad cold because my dh had it too - as did my ds. The cough that went with it was so bad it induced vomit in all of them....so I understood her taking that time off.

Anyway it' s now a month later. I took yesterday afternoon off work to take my ds to the doctor for his injections, giving her the afternoon off. This morning she was ten minutes late (even though she lives five minutes away and went home in my car) and claimed that it was because she wasn't feeling very well. She then called me at work to ask me to come home at three saying that she felt 'terrible'. I am really really busy at work at the moment as is dh but I came home. She was sitting on the sofa with a blanket over her knees. I sent her home and it's clear that she won't be up for working tomorrow either. This leaves me and dh in a really difficult position. I know this is part of being a parent but it couldn't have come at a worse time....

I suppose the reason I'm a bit put out is that this will mean that my nanny has had five sick days (I know it will be another day after tomorrow) in less than four months. My dh hasn't had one day off with his cold- which has been much worse even though he's had it on and off for four months.

Part of me feels that she's a bit pathetic - she's only 24- why can't she carry on - it' s only a bloody cold! Am I being unreasonable? Is it just much much harder, do you think, to look after a baby than any other job when you are below par? For those who say what about my ds catching her cold I would merely point out that he' s hardly had a day in the past three months without one so I'm getting used to it. My dh ( who has just done a fifteen hour day) is also rotten with it so he could catch that just as easily.. But maybe I've just turned into Mrs unreasonable? Need to know!

I think at the age of 24 (if you are still childless) you don't really appreciate the mentality of 'coping' when ill. I think she probably does feel ill (it would be embarassing sitting with a blanket over your knees if you were faking) but to you it must feel like she should cope like you do with the kids when you're ill. Does that make any sense?!

I think it depends on how ill she is feeling - it can be hard to function with a woozy head, shivers, coughing etc - my dh has just taken a day sick for that reason.

I used to be able to go to work feeling ill as I could get away with sitting at my desk and not doing much, but I guess you can't skive the whole with a baby to care for?

Not unreasonable, but I do think a childless 24 year old has a different tolerance for illness than a mother. I have a stinker of a cold at the moment, so does ds (touch wood dd doesn't get it) but as a SAHM just have to cope (and I'm bf so can't take any drugs . But I know that 5 years ago I would have called in sick and spent the day on the sofa watching crap TV.

??? She could rest when your ds is napping? this is a hard one where there is vomiting involved. Before my pregnancy I was never ever off work even when ill. I had terrible morning sickness even bringing up blood and actually could not go to work for some time so sometimes the vomiting is debilitating even for me and I'm tough as old boots. I am keen on the idea of nanny too and wondered about what happens when they are off sick. Did you hire your nanny through an agency? can they help when she is absent?Don't know what else to suggest although I agree with your sentiments and I don't think you are being too tough she must be on a samll fortune for a 10 hour London based day and she gets paid even when you give her impromptu days off - Marvellous!!! (for her)

You are all so right. Thank you for reminding me what it was like to be 24! At that age - even as a nanny, I suppose - you are used to being looked after when you are ill. Or at least are in that mindset. It' s probably only after children that you realise that you are the one who mops fevered brows from now on...not the other way round.

TBH, I don't see why she should be expected to struggle through when she's feeling ill. I agree with everyone else - when you're a mother, you have to, you don't get time off sick, but she's an employee, and has the right to have time off sick when she is sick. She hasn't chosen to be ill, she's probably not feeling great about it either, but look at it from the POV that if she takes the time off and rests, hopefully she'll get better quicker and be more effective when she does get back to work. Just because your DH chooses to struggle into work when he's ill, doesn't mean you can expect the same of all employees.

It's a nightmare for you with your job, but I think this is one of those situations where there is no happy solutions for everyone. Illness is a pita full stop, one wonders why nature invented it.

did you ask her references about sick days as it might be worth getting the agency to revisit them to see if this is going to be a problem. It might well be that she is just having a bad few months or maybe she is not enjoying the job, as that sometimes leads to excessive sick days. Whatever it is, I think you need to have a non-confrontational chat with her and meanwhile check out the agency again. PS. my nanny is not going to be tomorrow, I'm in NY and dh is having a fit!!!! SO I know how you feel....

Don't know about anyone else but I've felt worse with a bad cold than when I've had far worse illnesses

Colds are also easily spread .. so she's probably going to give it to your whole family

It may just be 4 months but if she's got a killer that's lingering then maybe just maybe she can't help it

you sound like a very reasonable employer .. if she was taking the mick you'd know it .. personally I think you are taking it badly because you are busy .. if you weren't, being the reasonable person you are, you would probably have told her to go home with a stinking cold

missytoe - My last post just crossed with yours. No I didn't hire my nanny through an agency, but through a website. (Was very lucky to bypass agency fees as she was also registered with five nanny agencies)

I did ask my nanny - tentatively - whether the nanny that she hangs out with every day might think about taking ds for the day. ( I have met her and the boy she looks after a lot and I like her) That boy and my ds are great friends. I said I could pay her cash and pay her well but my nanny made it clear that she didn't think that was on. I backed off immediately...

So me and dh are going to work out the next few days between us. My work are starting to raise eyebrows a bit. As a freelancer I'm only on a six month contract so 'my nanny is sick' is starting to look a bit like an excuse I drag out when I fancy a day off.....

You are all so right. Thank you for reminding me what it was like to be 24! At that age - even as a nanny, I suppose - you are used to being looked after when you are ill. Or at least are in that mindset. It' s probably only after children that you realise that you are the one who mops fevered brows from now on...not the other way round.

Agree, that as a Mum you just soldier on, but as your nanny is clearly not your baby's mum - it is not fair to expect her to carry on at all costs.

Not sure whether the suggestion about her napping when your baby rests was serious? I think this smacks of Scrooge and Bob Cratchett ('scuse the xmas theme). If your nanny is sick -she's sick end of story - pain in the a*se I know especially when you are so busy.

this is difficult for you - it's the recognised downside of going for childminder or nanny over nursery (ie you loose childcare if your carer is sick, as opposed to losing it when your child is sick). I think it's too early to tell if she's being unreasonable - I think you'd need a longer period than 4 months/two colds (which do sound bad) over which to measure it. I also think that as an employee you can't really expect her to cope/sodlier on, just because you and your dh do. Is catching up on work in the evenings or at w/es an option? I also think it's reasonable for you to find cover - why didn't she like the idea of you asking her friend? If it does persist it might be worth asking her if she's truly happy with a 50-hour week - it's a long week (I know we parents do much more than that - but she's not a parent) and it could be grinding her down a bit - would there by any chance of making it a 4.5 day week?

Maybe she didn't like the idea of you asking her friend because her friend's employers might not like the idea of their nanny suddenly taking on double the reposnsibility!

This is a very difficult one, I do sympathise. People do vary tremendously in their soldiering on capacity - we had a nanny for three and a half years who, despite catching all the children's colds, probably took off five sick days in all her time with us; and at the other end of the scale a cleaner who didn't come in one week in three (we were relieved when she quit!). I think what made the difference was whether doing the job makes you feel better or worse - our nanny used to say she'd rather come in because it took her mind off feeling grotty.

Have you got any way of developing an emergency circle - local nursery, childminder with occasional gaps, freelance sort of people you get to know through babysitting agencies? That's what got us through before we had super nanny.

agree with Caligulights - she's an employee so entitled to be off when she's sick (don't think age has anything to do with it tbh) as a sick parent you just HAVE to cope - but if you could hand over the reigns wouldn't you? I know I've helped dd with the dgs's when she's been below par.

Hopefully by taking time off she'll recover quickly and get back to work soon.

Good luck!

What's in her contract? Ie how much sick pay are you paying her? What is the cut-off point?

I appreciate 5 days seems a lot in 4 months but you are also looking at 2 instances - the first you said was understandable. It seems to be the current time off that you're more worried about?

Did her references mention anything about this? Certainly if I was phoned as a referee this is the sort of thing I would mention (though I probably wouldn't have out it in a written reference). So if it hasn't been mentioned then I would give her the benefit of the doubt.

No direct experience I'm afraid - my nannies have never had a day off sick, but they have tended to be older.

i think if she's sick then surely she's sick. Being sick and in charge of your own child is one thing - being sick and in charge of someone elses especially when they are paying big bucks is something completely differnt. How would you feel if she crashed in bed all day and let your child just bum around on the floor or got into bed with her? I actually think she's being really responsible in ensuring her germs aren't spread any further. In addition of course she's not entirely to blame for being sick if the three of them are passing it around.

Alternatively if you're worried about the costs, how about you revise her sick pay to say half normal rate unless she can provide a doctors note.

Is it just much much harder, do you think, to look after a baby than any other job when you are below par?

I would say so. I haven't read what everyone else wrote so sorry if I repeat myself.

Until September I worked p/t and my dh works f/t. During the first 18 months of my dd's life my dh and I got more illnesses than we ever have in the past. My dd would get a slight strain of something from nursery and DH and I would seem to come down with the worst possible strain despite leading pretty healhty lifestyles.

Anyway, when I was ill on my non-working days I used to really resent my dh going off to work. I would much rather have been going to work with my illness than having to stay home with my dd all day.

On the otherhand, your nanny gets to go home at the end of the day and recouperate. If she didn't have a temperature, sore throat or a cold-induced headache then perhaps she should make more effort to cope through her cold. It's hard to judge. The fact that she came to work then called you home from work leads me to believe she probably did feel like sh*t.

I think you're finding this hard is because you're just beginning to face the reality of the stresses of being a working parent -i.e. when there is a crisis the buck stops with you (and dh) and one of you has to drop what you are doing at work. Its tough but that is the reality. SOmehow you and dh will have to think of a fall back for emergencies like this, which will happen whatever your childcare arrangements (do you have any friends or family who can step in occasionally - perhaps you could reciprocate for friends when you have one of your days off? I think its also really important to share the burden between you and dh - after all you're both fulltime). Two episodes in 4 months is unlucky but not 'unreasonable' or unusual. In the four months since I went back to work after ds2 we had two whole weeks' absence to deal with when they both got chickenpox, plus another day when ds1 got sick. It happens!

Time will tell whether this nanny's coping threshold is too low to be workable for your family - and you'll know next time you recruit that this is something you value highly. Though personally I don't think you'll find (or should expect) the same level of commitment from a nanny as you give to your work.

Ragtaggle,
Do you pay her for sickk days. By law she must be paid after the thirda day (or perhaps it's on the third day). But, you are not obligated to pay for the first two. So, if you suspect she's cutting out at the first opportunity, perhaps you could review your contract and see if she is paid for the first 2/3 days. She may be a bit less likely to take to her bed if she has ti give up pay.

My contract with our nanny says she is not paid for those first couple of days. But, she is rarely sick, and if I believed she was genuinely sick I would pay her anyway. I just have that in the contract in case I ever hire one who tries to take advantage of it.

Also, whenever I question myself about something ragarding management of the nanny, I always think what would I expect from my work. In your case, if I would go to work, then I would expect her to show up for work. Likewise if would not appreciate my boss doing something, then I would try not to do it myself.

ragtaggle, apologies if this duplicates anything.

fwiw, you sound like good employers. i also feel that you are within your rights to explain that in emergencies, such as when the nanny's ill, there MUST be a backup plan in place. TBH i think it's very strange that she resisted the idea of you asking her friend if she could provide that emergency cover. it sounds like the simplest solution, not least because your DS is familiar with the friend and the other child.
perhaps if you know the other nanny would be OK with it and i'm sure the extra money would be handy you could offer to sound out the other child's parents, to clear it with them (perhaps on those double-up days, the other parents should pay a bit less).
i really don't think that your nanny should have much say on this.

Hard one, but I agree you should give her benefit of the doubt this time. After all, it is the worst time of year for hideous colds. Mind you if this becomes a patern over the long term then you may have to accept that as others have said, she just doesn't "cope" as well as a parent would because, well, she isn't one ! Ultimately although her head says she has responsibilities to your family, her body says otherwise and she can rely on you as the parent to take up that slack from her. I have every sympathy btw. I'm now a sahm of 4, but I did work for a time when I had 2 small dss of 1.5 and 3yrs, and again when I had 3 children under 6. I had a nanny who in many ways was lovely, but she just didn't cope well with bad colds. No I didn't want her around for the first day or 2 of a heavy cold when infection risk is highest, but I thought she wasn't good enough at just pulling herself together after that and b well coping. I made the mistake (Uwila usefully brought it up) of paying out throughout illness - actually decent employers imo should do so anyway, for genuine cases. This girl always rushed to her GP at the 1st sniffle to try and get antibiotics (don't bother it's a virus ffs!). I think she'd been brought up to think someone else pampers you when you're under the weather. Nice if you can get it, as all parents know. I'm waffling... I'll conclude now.
So:EITHER she's doing her best to be responsible at a bleak and coldy time of year and will recover quicker after a rest, OR you have my old nanny in disguise, in which case you will have an uphill struggle changing a hypochondriac mindset, believe me. Time will tell. Just don't fall out with her yet. Wait and see; easier said than done I know.

I agree with the fact that a 24 year old might have less incentive to soldier on than a mum, but I think "soldiering on" is more an individual thing than an age thing. I was a full time nanny at 18/19 and I never had a day off with illness, I just believed if I could get through the day then collapse at 6.30pm then I would.Also as a childminder now I've never had a sick day.... I'm certainly no superwoman but I think you have to go to work if you can.(And I'm now not paid for sick days).

I definately think the fact that you have paid her for sickness,whilst very kind and I admire you for it,doesn't encourage her to work if she "maybe" can have a day in bed and be paid for it.I don't mean to sound harsh to nannies - I've been there - but maybe reviewing her sick pay and discussing her time off might help (both of you).

I think Uwila's benchmark about 'expect what you would expect of yourself' is a fair one - but it is important to use whether you would show up for work as a comparator, not whether you would take care of the kids! Nannying is a job, and should not be compared to parenting in the context of terms and conditions. I remember leaning over a bf-ing DS to be sick in a bowl - but I certainly wouldn't have gone into work.

Raggletaggle - tbh, I think you need to think a bit clearly about the professional relationship with your nanny. The idea about sharing in emergencies with another nanny was a good one - but IMO it certainly would not have been appropriate to set it up by your nanny talking to the other. I would have been really miffed if another nanny had asked ours to care for another kid, and would not have expected her to make such a decision, anyway. But I would have been prepared to talk to the other parents and then consult the nannies - with offereing them extra money - as you suggested.

I hope the current round of lurgy recedes fast, and that your work calms down. Good Luck!