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Original poster

Am I in breach of CAO?

14 replies

MummytoD1 · 13/03/2023 09:43

Hi, need some advice please

Sorry in advance for alot of "our child"
I am not familiar with the DS, NRP etc language.

My ex and I split up whilst I was pregnant. When our child was born my ex was visting weekly. When our child turnt 2m my ex wanted alternative overnight weekends. Considering the age of our child and for routine/familiarity reasons, I refused overnight. I never said never, just not yet. This resulted in alot of verbal/emotional abuse and facebook slandering from my ex and his family. It caused severe anxiety and our communication was at its worst. When our child turnt 6m my ex threatened court action, I therefore seeked legal advise and was introduced to mediation. I invited my ex to mediation, we attended a joint meeting and expressed our feelings re overnight stays. I suggested that I would consider overnight stays when our child turnt 1yr. This wasnt good enough and he applied for a child arrangements order. We had a 6m wait for this hearing, and in the meantime overnight stays were introduced when our child turnt 10m, after many stays this turnt into friday-sunday fortnightly and this has been regular ever since. We went to court a few months back and because we already had a signed parenting plan, the court was reluctant to grant my ex the order, however it was granted at the bare minimum, all the order states is a) child will live with mother, and b) child will spend time with (ex's name) at least fortnightly and c) any other agreements between both parents.

So, we have reached a time where my ex has not been available for his time, he has chosen to go on a lads weekend away (I found out through a mutual friend as her partner was going with them) which is fine he is entitled, and all he had to do was ask to swap weekends, but insted he lied and suggested he was away for a work conference and that his mum will have our child instead. Once I confirmed with him that he would not be spending any time with our child, I suggested I would be keeping our child as I do not want our child spending weekends away with anyone other than myself and my ex (our child is now 14m). I did offer his mother to have our child for a day over that weekend if she wanted to spend time with the child, just no overnight stays yet. This was refused and we arranged for my ex to collect our child in a fortnights time and resume usual areangements. This obviously reasulted in more verbal/emotional abuse and I was accused of breaching the order we have. I suggested that I was not in breach, I am live with parent and if our child is not "spending time" with the named person on the order I do have a say and a right to keep our child with me.

Now you know the facts, my question is, am I in breach by not sending our child to my ex's mothers home for the weekend in his absence? Can he take me back to court?

Im aware he is not in breach of the order by not making himself available, I know I cannot force him to spend time with our child.

Thanks in advance! :)xo

OP posts:
Aftjbtibg · 13/03/2023 09:47

I think what you’ll find is that on his weekends he can have whoever he wants care for his child and you can only really withhold if you have safety concerns.

FlippyFloppyShoe · 13/03/2023 09:53

Previous poster is not quite right. It depends what you have in your CAO. I have it stipulated that I always (as does ex) have first refusal if ex cannot look after DC.
I would ignore your ex about taking you back to court, he would be really petty to do it over one thing like this. I think you just need it clarifying for moving forward and if both of you agree then documentation of the agreement should be enough, surely?

RedHelenB · 13/03/2023 09:54

He's the father. On his weekends he can decide what happens with child, whether or not you agree You are making arguments for no reason, the child's grandmother is a fit person to look after child overnight, iyou're happy for child to be alive with her during the day after all Bottom line, the more people a child has to love them the happier and more secure they'll be.

FlippyFloppyShoe · 13/03/2023 09:56

@MummytoD1 I'm with you, whilst a child can have as many people to love them, it's not a parcel to be passed from pillar to post.

Isyesterdaytomorrowtoday · 13/03/2023 10:09

Whilst I agree that it feels like it should be that way, having been through it with my ex who’s mother has out DC for all overnights that’s are supposed to be with him - unless it’s specified in your court order he can choose who looks after the child on his time. He’s free to organise childcare in the same way you can on your time with them.

as I say, morally it feels off but unfortunately that seems to be the way it is.

SchoolTripDrama · 13/03/2023 10:14

MummytoD1 · 13/03/2023 09:43

Hi, need some advice please

Sorry in advance for alot of "our child"
I am not familiar with the DS, NRP etc language.

My ex and I split up whilst I was pregnant. When our child was born my ex was visting weekly. When our child turnt 2m my ex wanted alternative overnight weekends. Considering the age of our child and for routine/familiarity reasons, I refused overnight. I never said never, just not yet. This resulted in alot of verbal/emotional abuse and facebook slandering from my ex and his family. It caused severe anxiety and our communication was at its worst. When our child turnt 6m my ex threatened court action, I therefore seeked legal advise and was introduced to mediation. I invited my ex to mediation, we attended a joint meeting and expressed our feelings re overnight stays. I suggested that I would consider overnight stays when our child turnt 1yr. This wasnt good enough and he applied for a child arrangements order. We had a 6m wait for this hearing, and in the meantime overnight stays were introduced when our child turnt 10m, after many stays this turnt into friday-sunday fortnightly and this has been regular ever since. We went to court a few months back and because we already had a signed parenting plan, the court was reluctant to grant my ex the order, however it was granted at the bare minimum, all the order states is a) child will live with mother, and b) child will spend time with (ex's name) at least fortnightly and c) any other agreements between both parents.

So, we have reached a time where my ex has not been available for his time, he has chosen to go on a lads weekend away (I found out through a mutual friend as her partner was going with them) which is fine he is entitled, and all he had to do was ask to swap weekends, but insted he lied and suggested he was away for a work conference and that his mum will have our child instead. Once I confirmed with him that he would not be spending any time with our child, I suggested I would be keeping our child as I do not want our child spending weekends away with anyone other than myself and my ex (our child is now 14m). I did offer his mother to have our child for a day over that weekend if she wanted to spend time with the child, just no overnight stays yet. This was refused and we arranged for my ex to collect our child in a fortnights time and resume usual areangements. This obviously reasulted in more verbal/emotional abuse and I was accused of breaching the order we have. I suggested that I was not in breach, I am live with parent and if our child is not "spending time" with the named person on the order I do have a say and a right to keep our child with me.

Now you know the facts, my question is, am I in breach by not sending our child to my ex's mothers home for the weekend in his absence? Can he take me back to court?

Im aware he is not in breach of the order by not making himself available, I know I cannot force him to spend time with our child.

Thanks in advance! :)xo

*turned. As 'turnt' is not a word

Original poster
MummytoD1 · 13/03/2023 10:22

Thank you. The CAO only states "the child shall live with mother" and "spend time with father atleast fortnightly" and "any other arrangements agreed" thats all.

Whilst I respect and encourage our child spending time with family members (sence my offer for the grandmother to spend time over that weekend on a daytime basis) I feel that at such a younge age, I am not comfortable with our child spending full weekends in neither mother or fathers care.

OP posts:
Definitelycross · 13/03/2023 10:22

@SchoolTripDrama - how is that helpful in any way? It's just rude.

Vivi0 · 13/03/2023 10:25

MummytoD1 · 13/03/2023 10:22

Thank you. The CAO only states "the child shall live with mother" and "spend time with father atleast fortnightly" and "any other arrangements agreed" thats all.

Whilst I respect and encourage our child spending time with family members (sence my offer for the grandmother to spend time over that weekend on a daytime basis) I feel that at such a younge age, I am not comfortable with our child spending full weekends in neither mother or fathers care.

That’s absolutely fair. Just let him take you back to court if he wishes, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Original poster
MummytoD1 · 13/03/2023 10:55

Thank you. There are no safety concerns. Our child would be safe and showered with love in their families care. However, I feel at just 14m of age I am not comfortable for our child to spend a full weekend in a third unfamiliar home without mother or father present. Our child is currently experiencing seperation anxiety, constantly protesting for myself. I wouldnt want to have my child away for a long period of time without their mother or father present. I am doing everything with our childs best interest. I also have not and would not have my family look after our child for that period of time, yet. Its nothing personal against any family members, and these views will change as our child grows. Please note, our child spends time with grandmother fortnightly in my ex's care so its not a case of witholding contact. Im a first time mother, and consider myself a fair co-parent. The last thing I want to do is be in breach of our newly CAO or cause further conflict and return to court which causes me the worst anxiety, but I cannot help feeling this uncomfortable about our child spending a full weekend away in neither mother or fathers care. I feel I do have a say in who the child spends time with if their father has not made themself available.

OP posts:
lunar1 · 13/03/2023 11:02

14 months old is very young to be staying with extended family in my opinion. Regardless of that though, the order says lives with you, and spends time with dad. I don't think you could be found in breach of that order.

Vivi0 · 13/03/2023 11:07

The last thing I want to do is be in breach of our newly CAO or cause further conflict and return to court which causes me the worst anxiety, but I cannot help feeling this uncomfortable about our child spending a full weekend away in neither mother or fathers care.

As I said, that’s absolutely fair. The court order is vague and not specific on what is to happen when the father cannot exercise his contact time and this, combined with the young age of your child and the fact there is no history of refusing contact to the father, I don’t consider a court would take the view you have breached the CAO.

If he does take you to court, it is your opportunity to seek clarity on situations when the father cannot exercise his contact and to perhaps see about having a right of first refusal added to the CAO.

I really wouldn’t worry yourself about it. I would have done the same.

Original poster
MummytoD1 · 13/03/2023 11:17

Thank you. We have a signed parenting plan (not legally binding btw) which states if neither parent can care for the child then grandparents would be contacted. I was available to care for our child in my ex's absence. And turn the tables, if I was unable to care for our child during their time with myself, my ex would be firstly contacted before extended family. Thank you for your advice, if this returns to court I will seek a right of first refusal to be placed on our CAO. Thanks again!

OP posts:
Original poster
MummytoD1 · 13/03/2023 11:52

Please be kind. I am aware of many spelling mistakes in my thread. Not like me, but full of anxiety sharing and had not proof read

OP posts:
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