Does everyone think childcare should be paid for?

[Cococomellon]

I have seen a lot of posts in social media about the cost of childcare, that it should be free and all the reasons in favour of that such as allowing both parents to work and the impact on the economy.

I can see how this would be a benefit. I have a young child and pay for childcare but I planned for this and it is not a surprise to me.

Who pays for this "free" childcare? Is there spare money the government has squirrelled somewhere? Should we all pay more taxes? Will the nhs get even less funding? Schools?

Perhaps I am just very right wing as I don't see to see the counter- arguments but I'm sure many people (some who don't have children) don't want to pay for others children to go to nursery?

So many posts here looking only at the input cost, not what the output upside would be. The general level of understanding of economics in the UK is woeful and a large part of the reason our Governments get away with this kind of incompetence. People fighting like rats in a bag howling about "funding someone else" while apparently being so ignorant they don't realise that funding certain public goods makes everyone better off. That's the point of it.

A subsidised system where parents had to work FT to access it might be the easiest and best compromise after reading these replies.

I don’t agree with the current rules around working 16 hours a week for at least NMW to access the funding, childcare should be covered for FT work. Or you only get funding for the hours you work, not 30 hrs if you only work 16 etc.

You do realise we are loosing early years settings at an alarming rate due to them not making money....65% rise in spring 22 against spring 21. Overall we have a reduction of more than 4000 settings in the last year with an increased number expected as costs of providing care hit in the next few month.
Most are unpaid by funding schemes, have increased labour costs due to changes in minimum wage increases, increased energy costs, increased rates, increased consumable costs ...if the funding rate is under £5 an hour 3 children don't even cover the wage costs of one staff member let alone the overheads of a nursery.
Most childminders have not increased their fees in years with many on sites asking if a 5p or 10p an hour increase is fair given rising costs of utilities and food. Typically at £5 or less an hour.

This!

But many do make money, the accounts for my child’s nursery are very healthy.

We pay over £2500 a month, not even full time!

Yeah that's bonkers too. The whole system is insane. Single parents who work FT taxed to death, with half the tax free earnings a couple are allowed, losing child benefit and "tax free childcare" etc at half the income a couple can earn while still claiming it. We need to start taxing everyone on a household basis and stop penalising people who actually work FT.

Research has shown that where children under 4 from poor backgrounds are not given access to the same opportunities as those from more affluent households, they are more likely to perform badly at exams age 16 and more likely to be unemployed as adults so giving access to quality childcare and experiences breaks the cycle of families claiming benefits generationally.

Totally appreciate that it's not everyone's choice to have kids. However, like it or not, our economy does depend on SOME of us having kids - otherwise there will be no one paying taxes to cover our own pensions and services by the time we are retired.

So yes, everyone does eventually use the NHS, but similarly society benefits from the children who grow up and work here, hence the reasonable comparison.

I think the issue at the minute is the cost of childcare - I work full time, as does my husband, and we pay childcare for 1 child for 2 days per week (we have grandparents to help with the rest.) Just this 2 days per week is more than the cost of our mortgage. So I can completely understand how it is financially savvier to stop working or reduce hours to avoid paying childcare, and claim benefits to that end, which is what a lot of people end up doing... burdening society.

To me it would be far better for society to cover childcare costs and in doing so encourage more mothers (or both parents) to work, stimulating the economy and reducing benefits bill this way.

I'm not saying they do need more I think funding should be paid for the hours you work plus commute as it is I have parents getting 10 hours more than they need at school who are only term time then having to pay for 14 weeks childcare in other settings....and get tax credits....
If access to childcare automatically meant you worked as long as you could they would all be working 10 hours a week more.

You shouldn’t have to subsidise for parents. You have a right to warm a decent wage - the same right is not extended to many working Mothers when CC is taken into consideration.

blame the government not the parents.

For me It's the frustration that if I didn't work I could have support with childcare when realistically I wouldn't need childcare coz I was at home but because I do work I have to pay fees, plus taxes plus after school fees.
I'm not expecting free childcare but I don't think it's fair that because I'm actually working and not claiming benefits that I get penalised more.

Are you seriously suggesting trusses pack them in as many as you can approach to childcare was a good approach for early years development and education? How many children aged 3 or younger can you give quality time to at once? 4, 5, 8 15?

But parents pay for childcare, not just Mothers. The cost of childcare should not automatically be deducted from the Mother’s wage. It should be deducted from the combined household income and considered alongside other things like pensions and the lasting effect of the mother having a break from the workplace.

Many people have no/fewer children because they know they can't afford it. Some of us are happily childfree. Why should both of those groups have to keep subsidising the less responsible who think it's OK to have as many children as they like because they expect the state (ie taxpayers) to fund them?
Children are the responsibility of their parents, and that includes financial responsibility.

Agree with this. Have acquaintances who are now reducing their hours / stopping working in order to access free childcare, whereas DH and I both work F/T and are charged through the nose for the privilege. I'm not sure if we're actually the daft ones in this scenario now!!

Parents working should be incentivised, but the current system is backwards and in many cases parents end up worse off by both working full time. A system where there are childcare subsidies for both parents working 30+ hours per week would make more sense and be more beneficial to the wider economy.

That's a very expensive nursery and not the typical I'm in London and 40 hours childcare costs less than half of that with outstanding childminders even less.

I wouldn't want to pay for other people's childcare. People should factor childcare in when they decide to have a family in my opinion.
I'm centre left, but don't think that paying for childcare is the answer as it does nothing to address the culture of presenteeism, long hours, putting children in childcare for long days so both parents can work (often in jobs with poor terms and conditions).

But I do think the government should properly fund the funded hours so that it covers the costs of providing the 3 year old hours without hiking the prices up elsewhere.
I'd also be in favour of better statutory maternity pay, better shared parental leave, better flexibility in the workplace as standard, and more things to promote men stepping up with domestic and childcare arrangements.

The majority of single parents are Mothers. The majority of stay at home parents in a heterosexual relationship are Mothers.

Mothers are penalised. If the Men wanted change - there would be.

The whole childcare system requires massive reform in this country. It’s simply not working for anyone.

You would have to include payment for travelling time too.....personally I also don't think parents earning £200k a year should get the same support as those earning half that

You do the same for healthcare and a state pension though.

Unless you earn over £40k a year for your entire working life you’ll also be a drain on taxes, just from you usage of the NHS and social care in future.

The vast majority of citizens never pay in what they take out, so stop bleating on about subsidising when you’re subsidised yourself by the wealthy.

But why not?

If anything the person on 200k should have more thrown at them because they’ll be constituting far more to the economy and paying far more in tax than those on less than half of that.

I think Norway have a good set up all children from 1 entitled to a place the fee is capped regardless of salary at about £265 a month and if lower income then less is paid. Its paid for by taxes but it's fair.

The UK could follow the model there is the funds to do so if certain things got dropped like space projects or millions in schemes which won't happen such as some of the years of tidal.

It’s typical round here, actually one of the lower cost ones available in the local area.

In theory, if there is free/low costs childcare for working parents then more parents will work and therefore more taxes will be paid.

But posters on here say that it costs nearly all their wages to send children to nursery. So if it's that expensive, won't the country just be paying out a lot more than they receive in tax? How is that beneficial?

I don't want to pay for MPs meals and energy bills but I don't get a choice in that 🤷. I think it needs a tota reform, it doesn't need to be free exactly but it needs to be accessible, affordable and regulated. At the end of the day it's not really a fair argument to say there isn't the money, if the government can pay their mates millions in dodgy contracts that bypassed all forms of checks then they can afford to reform childcare. And for every "it's a choice, I don't want to pay for other peoples children" then can I opt out of paying for any medical provision for anyone who smokes, drinks or does drugs? It's the same thing, they're all a choice and a HUGE burden on the NHS which wastes valuable finances and resources.
Basically, it shouldn't ever be that women/caregivers are forced out of work due to insane childcare prices, which is actually the reality at the end of the day.