Early years advice

[Jacketandbeans]

Hi,

I've got a nearly 3 year old and am looking for childcare for him and my baby from next summer. I've found a setting that can take them both (small setting of 12-15 children of all ages from baby to preschool). I love the idea of them being together and not separated into different rooms. it's very nurturing which I like for the baby but I'm not sure it's enough for my preschooler.
He currently doesn't know any numbers or letters. He can count to 10 and his speech is good. He is a typical toddler and won't sit down to colour or draw etc.
This setting has specifically said they don't do any formal learning, all child led, no writing etc, as it's not their ethos. Lots of creative play, trips out etc as they don't believe in starting too young.
I've found another setting that is very different, has a preschool area for over 3s and separates them from the others unless they are in the garden. They make sure they are learning to sit down and trace letters and doing other typical educational activities.
What would you choose? Ultimately I want them to be happy, but I don't want to disadvantage my preschooler.

Out of the 2 you have described, I would go with the first.

I mean, I'm not particularly keen on one room for all ages of children. I would have some concerns about how many others there were of his age. I would want to know how they ensured the older dc had age appropriate equipment whilst not endangering the little ones with small parts.
In a small setting taking all ages, there could easily be an imbalance on some (or all) of the days any not enough other dc to be doing activities at his level.

But
I wouldn't send a pre-schooler somewhere that said
"They make sure they are learning to sit down and trace letters.
Not appropriate for pre-schoolers.

I would 100% go for the first one. I absolutely agree with them and I think you'll find so does most research into early childhood education.

The second setting sounds completely inappropriate for a small child. It's what parents (who don't understand child development) want, not what children need.

I think it depends on the child. My DS (also 3) would hate the first setting. He doesn't like activities/crafts but wants to spend all his time doing numbers and letters.

Apparently the first setting is 'all child led' so if he loves numbers and letters then that's what they'd do with him. Why would he hate being able to do exactly what he enjoys?

@NuffSaidSam
OP says 'no writing' in the first setting

Honestly I would prefer the second option but that is because I would rather it, plus I have a child of the same age who enjoys numbers and colouring. Though I don't think they need it at that age as they are still so young!

@NuffSaidSam Because he loves formal learning and doesn't lot like creative tasks. He'd be disappointed if he wasn't being taught maths and how to write etc.

Presumably, that means no adult led writing i.e. being forced to sit down and work. Not that they've banned any counting or writing! That would be insane wouldn't it? Snatching pens out of the hands of children who dare to form a letter.....come on!

It's child led. If the child WANTS to read/write/draw/count then they'll support that. That's what child led means (at least normally, maybe the OP did mean children have pens snatched of their hands....but I really doubt it!).

Child led means it's led by the child.

They follow the child's interests. There is no reason to believe a child led setting would force a child to do creative tasks they have no interest in while denying them access to the learning that they want. That's just not how a child led setting works.

Everything @NuffSaidSam is saying about the curriculum.

I do think I'd keep looking though.

I’d go with the second truthfully. My daughters are sisters they love each other and will no doubt play more together the older they get- but I don’t think a preschooler gets much from being around a baby. I would want my eldest around her own peer age group- and the writing etc, I think it’s good to start c. 3/4 before school.

This setting has specifically said they don't do any formal learning, all child led, no writing etc, as it's not their ethos. Lots of creative play, trips out etc as they don't believe in starting too young.

@NuffSaidSam

See above. Not sure why you responded so over- dramatically with 'snatching pens out of hands' comments

It does sound play led. Which is lovely. However some pre-schoolers are ready to learn and enjoy it. This setting suggests above that this would be 'starting (them) too young, and would therefore encourage more play based activities. Slightly different to child led as this sounds as though a child wanting to 'learn' in a more structured way would not fit their ethos.

OP, I think you get a sense of which to choose during visits and seeing the setting. I don't think you can make a 'wrong' choice for this age group so whichever one seems to suit you best. 3 is such a curious age, so they will learn in any setting

Just to clear some points up, sorry for drip feeding. The first setting will have about 8 children his age, the rest younger. The second setting has about 12 pre schoolers and about 30 children in total.

When she said they don't do writing she just meant it's not structured in, the options are there for them if they choose to do it, but I do get the impression its very far down the priority list. They are all about being outside and exploring, cooking, gardening, messy play, all the toys are very open ended, lots of dressing up, visiting care homes and messy play centres.
My first DS was very keen on learning and knew all his alphabet and numbers really young, started writing before school etc. He went to a CM (we've since relocated) she did used to have them tracing letters, but he enjoyed that so it suited him and I felt he started school ahead which was nice for him. Our second DS is the opposite. He has no interest in being taught numbers or letters so I havent pushed it. He has no desire to please adults and get a 'well done'.
But I don't want him to get to school and be behind his peers, he is naturally very shy, I want him to be confident.

What put me off setting two a bit was the fact he says the children in preschool need to understand that there is more expected of them than when they were toddlers, that they need structure and need to be able to sit down and learn as well as play.
Ultimately I want my kids to run in excited and happy. Both settings are like homes turned into nurseries.

Eh, I’m not sure. I have a strong dislike of all ages nurseries (try to meet in the middle which ends with all kids getting half what they need) but I wouldn’t like the kids ‘sitting to trace letters’ either.

When the first nursery said they’re child led and do no writing, presumably they meant they don’t force writing? The children should still have the opportunity to mark make and develop writing skills and be supported with this in a child led environment.

Child led means they follow the child's lead.

If a child likes writing and wants to write that's what they will do.

It would be insane for a child care setting that takes 3 year olds to actively discourage writing. It just doesn't make any sense, does it? Imagine the Ofsted report! You need to maybe read between the lines a little rather than taking it absolutely literally!

Snatching pens was just a little joke. We are allowed those on Mumsnet.

Thanks for clarifying OP.

Hope that explains what 'child led' means to some of the posters worried that a childcare setting is anti-learning!!

Based on this further info, I would say even more strongly the first one.

Tbh I'd be concerned about a child who loved writing so much that they didn't want to also have trips out, gardening, cooking, messy play etc. It sounds absolutely delightful!

They are all about being outside and exploring, cooking, gardening, messy play, all the toys are very open ended, lots of dressing up, visiting care homes and messy play centres.

Sounds lovely, and exactly what I'd be wanting from a Nursery.