Should we get rid of our nanny

[Timetomovejob]

We pay €20 an hour for 40 hours a week, which I think we’re starting to find very hard to justify so not sure if I’m not thinking clearly…ideally we would have a nanny that drives but (I’ll call her) X doesn’t. The school is a 30 min walk away which is ok for pick up but feel bad making kids walk that twice a day in winter on the days she does drop off (she does two long days, 8-6, 3 short 11-5.30). When she does drop off (nursery drop off is at 9) she doesn’t come back home, it sounds like she just hangs out, meets sister for coffee until pick up at 12. We had agreed when keeping her on for 40 hours when the little one took her 3 free nursery hours that she would pick up more work in the house, but this isn’t really being done. Because she doesn’t drive we need to pay for the time it takes her to walk for the pick up (hence being paid from 11), then she’ll come home for about 12.35, then relax on her phone having lunch until she leaves for the older ones at 1.30 (we’re not in UL, earlier school finish times). She also just informed us (didn’t ask) of the dates of her holidays, one 3 week one in September, another one week in term time. We are going to struggle to cover these and may have to pay someone to do so as obviously wr want to keep our holidays for out of term time. On the other hand, the kids absolutely love her.
what do you think we should do? Are we being unfair to her or has this just run it’s course and we should either look for someone who can drive, or get an au pair possibly?

if the kids like her then it’s difficult.
You could give her notice and instead perhaps find a nanny who does drives, who might fulfil the role
’better’ technically but isn’t so pleasant to have around the house or your kids may not like as much.
it’s difficult with nannies and I find there is always a compromise somewhere.
one is limited by the options available (how easy would it be to find someone else who does drive?) and sometimes it’s better the devil you know… (although she sounds nice and not a devil !)
id try and work it out with her and remind
her that she is supposed to come back and do work around the house - that need not be a difficult conversation.
for the holidays I would approve two weeks and then tell her the other two weeks are for your discretion. Again, doesn’t t need to be a difficult conversation - you are her employer after all and have a right to decline when she requests to take holiday if it doesn’t work for you and will cost you double in finding alternative care

I’d just get her and the children bikes, all easily solved?

I honestly don't see what the problem is with the walking here and why so much insistence for a car when this is the only reason.
She'd have 2 hours at home if she walked back. So it's completely doable.

Op pays euros and isn't in the UK.

Re bikes, I would cycle them to school, but she doesn’t cycle in the city, doesn’t feel safe to, and as the two smallies are on a bike seat and trailer respectively I wouldn’t feel it safe either.
leaning towards just putting my big girl pants on and having the difficult conversation and seeing if we can work it out. At least for the next year or two, after which we might get someone maybe more housekeeping focused. My DH is usually great at getting out of these talks and playing the nice guy but I’ll insist he is there too!

Agree that the way you speak about her is disgusting. This is the woman who cares for your children. You clearly don't value her so for her own sake, let her go.
Also, you must have known she didn't drive before you employed her so that falls on you. If she did drive, you do realise you would be paying for her petrol too so it's not like it would reduce the money you are paying out.
Please let this nanny go to someone who will appreciate her as you clearly do not.

Well in the op defence there is nothing to suggest she treats the nanny badly irl.
Op I have recently gone through the same - trying to improve a nanny who was liked by the kids but frankly actually quite a lot of work for us (leaving tonnes of washing up etc/ really messy house/ unreliable). She got a bit better but needed a lot of input.
Final straw was that she took leave on the day I was starting a new job when I had explicit conversations about how busy and stressful that week was going to be for months.
We parted ways - on good terms and I have a combo of student and cleaner now. Frankly it's a lot less stressful for me
There is no way I would be paying for someone to not do housekeeping tasks when they haven't got children (my kids school is an hour round trip and we don't have a car) but do think you should have said it earlier. A frank conversation is needed and it doesn't work would part ways

One thing stood out at me. The kids love her. That is priceless and not easy to find. Hang on to her. Also you must have known she didn't drive when you hired her so why complain now. Your kids are getting exercise why feel bad ?

For future reference, you need to discuss the arrangements about holiday up front and interview and then put them in the contract. Our nannies have always had the guidelines about holidays (how much they choose, how much we choose, whether they need to be in school hols or not) discussed up front and in the contract.

Exactly this. People want the benefits of a full time nanny, being available for inset days/sick days, school holidays, without the pay.

There was an agency enquiring in a nanny group recently why no one was applying to the after school positions. No one can survive on 15/20 hours a week, and it's hard to find other jobs that fit around school hours that then magically let you disappear during all school holidays (it's also a PITA).

The nannies I've known to agree to term-time only hours with FT in the holidays, with the salary split evenly across the months, never last long because the money isn't enough.

You can only tackle her on the agreement that she was to pick up more work around the house- you need to define those expectations. Frequency of child laundry & bedding change, their rooms cleaned & tidied. Also which of those tasks are to be done when she is not in charge of any of the DC.

I would say for her holidays after September 2023 they need to be approved by you in advance and that you determine 50% and she has free choice of the other 50%.

Tricky

you employed x knowing she couldn’t drive. You are happy for kids to walk to school then

how long has she been with your family ?

yes seems a lot of walking for her to walk kids to school. Walk back. Do 2hrs of chores. Walk back to collect. Walk back home for lunch. Walk back to collect 130. Walk back home again with kids so 6 times a day for her 30mins walk - that’s 3hrs of walking for the nanny

holidays. She gave 11mths notice - sure you can get a temp in

why couldn’t you find a nanny who drives originally

I'd look for someone else.

I’m really surprised you think at 30 minute walk twice a day is too much for a child! Losing a nanny who walks with them for an hour a day, to hire one who drives, would be doing your children a disservice.

As people have noted it’s more the walking for the nanny than kids is the problem - 3 hours a
day. When we hired her we couldn’t find a nanny who can drive for what we could afford at the time ( a lot less than €20 per hour) and I/my DH could always do the drop and usually one of the pick ups because of the pandemic. She had very good experience with babies and was nice and friendly, important while we were mostly all in the house (although I leave her to it mostly during the day, can disturb the kids otherwise).

I guess what has changed is it it makes no sense to pay her from 8am unless she does the drop freeing us up to go straight into the office those 2 days, and if she doesn’t at least 2 days from 8am, then we will never get up to 40 hours a week for her. Smallest only started nursery in September. We always did drop before then (school drop is 8.30 so can generally make it to the office by 9, nursery drop is 9 so runs me a bit late).

Why did you increase her pay to 20e - £17,50gross

if orginally you were offering less and couldn’t find a driver

for U.K. £17.50g is a very good wage so sure is the same in Ireland

what we’re you offering originally when trying to find a nanny

guesing she’s been with you 2yrs ish if there in covid

I do think 3hrs of walking a day is a lot for a nanny

maybe she could babysit one night free /in lieu instead of chores /walking there and back 6 times to do 2hr of chores and carry on being local to drop offs

The holiday thing should be in your contract, the standard is that you get to choose two weeks of the holiday although we waived that. So check your contract, and if you do have that then discuss options with her.

I agree that you have to look at cost and value for the full day rather than hour by hour. Can you get the same for less? If on paper you can, is it really the same or is the unknown of whether you will trust another person or whether your kids will like her a factor? I do think your nanny should try to make herself as useful as possible, within reason, during paid hours. The contract should speak about this.

Maybe sit her down and discuss with the changing routines of the kids etc you think it’s time to assess her role and any changes that she or you would find helpful.

@NippyWoowoo not everyone can afford a nanny? Well blow me down, I thought they could!

There is an issue with nanny roles not paying enough or offering sufficient hours, in part because many households can sort of afford it…as in they struggle a bit. Without those households employing nannies the market for nanny jobs would be easier in some ways but much much smaller. But to be fair OP’s nanny is definitely not in that position, she has 40 hours on a way above average pay rate so I don’t think that basic affordability is an issue here.

not everyone can afford a nanny? Well blow me down, I thought they could

Well, a lot definitely do 🤷🏽‍♀️

I also explained higher up why I believe that parents who want a nanny available for FT hours when there isn't FT work available should pay for it.

The fact that OP is complaining at paying for 'free hours' and is contemplating exploitative labour an au pair suggest to me an issue with finances.

@Timetomovejob you haven’t said which country you’re living in but seem to suggest you’re in a city. Realistically, how much time would the nanny be “freed up” to do household tasks if she drove? I live in Dublin and it’s entirely possible for a car journey to take almost as long as walking during the busy school run periods. Then bearing in mind you generally have to park up somewhere and walk into school/nursery grounds, I wonder if the walking v driving issue might be a bit of a red herring?

It seems your main issue is the two mornings she hangs out rather than go back to the house and if that’s the case then you need to speak to her about what’s expected and remind her of what was agreed.

I still don’t think it’s helpful to look at this as I’m paying X for her to walk. That’s about as useful as telling yourself you’ve paid her €10 to play legos or €5 for the portion of time she sat on the park bench watching them play. You’re paying for the care of your dc, she’s not putting tins on a shelf.

You need:

8.30 drop off
9.00 drop off
12.00 pick up and
1.30 pick up

Whether driving or walking that’s always going to be a good chunk of time on the school run and as I’ve said, depending where you live a nanny who drives might still take as long and would likely require a contribution to the running costs of the car. Some pps have missed that you’re not in the UK and suggest she’s being paid above average but I think that’s unlikely. Certainly €20 per hour seems to be the average for a nanny here in Ireland and I’d expect it to be higher for more than two dc. You’re unfortunately at a tricky stage regarding your childcare needs so If I were you I’d be careful to do my homework before deciding to replace her or giving her reason to think it’s time to start looking for a new job.

@NippyWoowoo well I do agree with that actually, if you want someone available all day or to cover two ends of the day then you need to look at the overall value of that rather than what they are doing every hour.

If she doesn't feel safe cycling with the kids would she feel OK about cycling alone? If so she could have a bike to keep at school/nursery and cycle home and back from there.

Otherwise, get her a cheap laptop and ask her to find somewhere near nursery with wifi and do kids/family admin in the mornings. With 3 of them there must be plenty to organise! Clubs, activities, dentist, eye tests, haircuts, ordering clothes, getting presents for taking to birthday parties, organising their own parties...

It sounds like what you need is a Nanny Housekeeper, rather than just a pure Nanny. This would mean she had other jobs to do during the day while the DC are at school, and you won't feel so much that you are paying for her to sit around drinking coffee with her sister.

I have a Nanny Housekeeper, paid similar to yours, however my lady also drives. Our Nanny Housekeeper is the best thing since sliced bread, and I bend over backwards to make sure she is happy. Being a single parent, I really can't afford for her to up sticks and leave with a months notice because she's feeling undervalued (not necessarily in monetary terms).

She isn’t doing the agreed tasks and it isn’t working for you. Give her notice if it isn’t working, you’re within your rights to do so just as your boss would give you notice if you didn’t perform your job well.

However, please don’t ‘just get an aupair.’ I’m fed up of saying this but aupairs aren’t full time childcare for people who don’t want to pay. They are young people, often teen girls, who you pay ‘pocket money’ to do extremely light tasks, a bit like an older sister, while they take part in a cultural exchange. You can’t just hire a young woman to do the job of a full time nanny.