CM CLUB - URGENT, Ofsted calling me back - Am I right about how my certificate should read?

[SugarSpiceandAllThingsNice]

Long story short, I have a couple of variations on my certificate so it's not the nice need straight forward to certificate but hey ho. Anyway, I also have ds starting full time school on Monday so they were supposed to change my certificate to show this. I've just had a certificate through (due to ANOTHER variation) and it reads:

May care for 5 under 8's, of which no more than 2 may be under 5, and of these, not more than 1 may be under 1. An exception to this........blabla (not relevant really).

I have spent ages on the phone to Ofsted and they said because part of the exeption is to allow 3 under 5's on certain days, this covers me having my son turning over 5 i.e. at school all day.

I'm pretty sure my certificate SHOULD read the same as above BUT state that no more than 3 may be under 5??? Surely my own ds isn't an excemption!! Also, where it says about exceptions, it says re variation request dated x & y. My son turning 5 wasn't mentioned in these.

I AM right to query this aren't I??? Please, this lady on the phone INSISTED and INSISTED and I argued that I don't want an inspector getting me in trouble because of them telling me the wrong info and therefore she is trying to get Inspection Support team to phone me back.

I feel like I'm loosing the plot.

HELP!

TIA

Yes you are right London11 has just had a similar convo with them will ring her to see if she can come on

I have had equally confusing conversation with Ofsted today regarding my 2 under 1's variation.

I have made a note of who I spoke to at Ofsted and am going to speak to Childcare support and NCMA co-ordinator to see what they say.

YOUR certificate should say 3 under 5's as your son is claseed as 5.

London11 - I'm so glad I'm not going mad but what on earth is wrong with those people!!! I KNEW I was right but she had me questioning myself over it all and I could bloomin well do without it. I wouldn't let it drop until she agreed to get someone from Inspection Support to phone me back! So, if they say the same, I will take their name and do the same as you. It's CRAZY that we can't trust what their own staff say!!!

Thanks Shosh

What a surprise NOT!, they didn't call me back after all that! I'm going to email them tonight and demand confirmation (at least will be in writing!)

Have been given inaccurate info over phone myself, I had an email from Ofsted which agrees with my suggestion that nothing said over the phone by Ofsted staff can be relied upon (!) - always get everything confirmed in writing.

If they're going to up our fees, I do hope some of it will be spent on training their telephone staff!

I have been given inaccurate information in the past with regards my certificate....hmmm....seems to be a bit of a theme developing here!

I would suggest e-mailing.
I would have thought that your certificate should read something along the lines of:
May care for 5 under 8's, of which no more than 3 may be under 5, and of these, not more than 1 may be under 1. (if you don't need the exemption anymore)

I think this would be the case, because the numbers on the certificate refer to MINDED children, not to your own children. So child 6 in your case, is your own son, thus why you have 5 under 8's, 2 under 5's (as your son was under 5 at the time).

They don't seem to issue a new certificate automatically when your own children change age. So you need to ask for a variation, due to your own child now being 5. It's a strange system!

Definitely query it - via e-mail. Ideally try to escalate it to at least Inspector level - as admin staff surely should not be making decisions regarding numbers (that's the job of a childcare inspector).

Cheers everyone and very good point about when the fee increases and having staff that actually know what they're talking about!!!

Nick - yep, just sitting down to do the email now! And I tried telling this lady on the phone about the cert being for minded children otherwise it would say 6 and she agreed that ds isn't counted on there but couldn't grasp the fact my ds is NOTHING to do with the exception. Unfortuntely I do still need the exceptions on there, I just want the 2 to be a 3 and I'll be happy!

Bloomin OFSTED, I HAVE written to them about ds going to school, this is the thing. It was pending to be done this week and when they agreed the other thing but didn't do this aswell, that's why I called. So I've done everything right, they're making life difficult as usual. And also, she was implying that if it's different children I need for variation but same terms as on cert, that's fine. I explained that it's to do with the particular NAMED children on the original variation and that I DO need to ask each time - if they put that I could have say 4 under 5's permanently then it wouldn't be a problem - it's their system that sucks!!!

Sorry, rant over

That was my query on the phone today - have a 2 under 1 variation for 2 specific children and wrote to inform them that one child had turned one but that another baby was coming in later this year that would overlap with a current under 1 therefore could I re-do vaiation for these children!

They phoned me to say I don't need to apply as I already have a 2 under 1 variation and can keep it forever for whichever under1's I choose!

I was under the impression that a variation is specific to the children/days you ask for it but apparently not. Think I will e-mail also asking for confirmation.

Deffo ask for confirmation. My cert shows cariation 'as per request date xxx' and that request has named children so they are wrong to say that to me. How's your cert worded.

They truly are shit not very good at their jobs aren't they!

Certificate says

may care for no more than 5 children under 8years; of these, no more than 3 may be under 5, and of these, no more than 2 may be under 1 at any one time.

So doesn't specify children or days but the letter I had at the time asking me for details of the childrens ages and proposed routines etc led me to believe it was specific to them!

Starting to wonder why I get so stressed and junpy about doing eveything to the letter re Ofsted. Sounds like they don't care enough to give out the right info - if only I could not care enough to give them the right info!

Well, your cert sounds ok then to me but best to get confirmation. Mine have always referred to variation requests and also said 'until child turns age X or is no longer minded by me'

BTW - you're required on another thread - you have a thread requesting your help

Ofsted phoned me at 8.20am!! I WAS right, the other person was wrong HOWEVER 'the telephone staff do have a lot of areas to cover and aren't expert in any set area' - I'm like 'errr, yes, but don't INSIST you're right about something you don't understand then!! ' (didn't say that though). So new certificate should be with me by the end of the week hopefully.

Yippee, I actually have a cerificate here as it should be. Previous 4 under 5's removed as no longer necessary - it makes more sense now as only 1 variation and not 2 which were very confusing!! lol

Bloomin Ofsted though, never trust a phone call!!