switching from nursery to nanny- anyone out there with 2 under 2?

[stardust]

Desperately seeking advice re. coping with 2 children as of june 2005 (no 2 due in feb) when i will just about be facing hectic work schedule...if all goes to plan. We have a 14mth yr old who adores FT nursery, though it is v exp. at over £1000pm, though few options in SW London. No 2 will mean a feeble 10% discount on that...so little short of £2k pm. We are lucky enough to have good jobs, though me not working is not an option; i enjoy it, and it also pays the mortgage. I have started to wonder about a less costly option for childcare, someone at home, nanny/childminder, not live in as no room. Having seen how our son thrives at nursery, the amazing stuff they do, all the toys/stimulation/great care, and mates, at even 14mths (!) I wonder if its fair to take him out and be at home with a young sibling, at least for the first few months.
My thoughts at present are send them both to nursery and cripple ourselves for a few mths (until they are 8mths and 2yrs respectively), and then have s'one at home.
Anyone been through this and not looked back? I worry about stupid things like accidents and wooden floors and not being equipped, them being bored....
And if the saving isnt that great, may just stick to nursery....
All comments much appreciated as ever - with no experience of nannies, and no contacts, it seems a real minefield, and i wonder if we are just hanging on to what we know, but possibly not exploring all the options.....

Hi lockets - soonish....and there is no guaranteed no.2 will be accepted..(they say)
THe final decision will depend on findign the right person for us, ie the one we and the kids click with....
you reckon going through an agency is the best route? dont they take bags of commission?

In SW london a top notch full time nanny will cost you £350-£400 pw plus tax and national insurance which is half again. So the monthly cost of the nanny at £350pw is £2200 and at £400pw is £2500.

Agencies will charge you 4-6 weeks net pay plus VAT for finding someone for you.

For a full time carer you really need someone who knows what they are doing. Certainly there are loads of benefits from having a nanny and they will set up a social scene that means that your children are not missing out on social interaction and stimulation.

You can also find your own nanny, through websites such thegumtree.co.uk and nannyjob.co.uk. To be honest a large amount of the nannies who you might source through an agency will also advertise themselves on these websites. You will have to check their qualifications, visa position ( if applicable ) and check their references yourself. But to be quite honest I think you should be doing that with any applicant, even ones who are sourced through agencies. Most agencies are looking for confirmation that the person has done the job, what they have done and has been competent at it. The questions that you need to ask to match someone to your household are much more personal and you need to do them yourselves.

There is a huge market in black market nannies ( childminders ) they tend to be ozzies, kiwis, east europeans, asians - a lot of them transient staying in the UK for a couple of years on work visas. We had an ozzie who was unqualified but brilliant, she left to go home earlier than we thought she would.

I wonder if there is a market as setting up as a childcare consultant ??

Sorry Kaz33 but Childminders are NOT blackmarket nannies.

Most Childminders are registered with Ofsted and qualified.

Stardust have you considered a childminder then your older child could attend Nursery part-time and they would both get very good care. I'm not sure how much a childminder in London would cost - but look on the Childcare Information Service (on-line)

We were in your position tho with a slightly bigger gap - and I was able to extand mat leave, so that when I went back DD was almost 3 and DS was 8 months. I was lucky to have great mat bens so could afford to keep DD in daycare for 3 days a week when on leave to give me time with DS, not divert her routine etc and then pulled her out for the summer and then hired a nanny. 3 months later she got her (state) nursery place which in our boro was then the term after you are 3, so whilst I worried (needlessly it turned out) about the social side it was only for a few months and then she quickly settled in the new school. I find the flexibility of a nanny invaluable and would always advise people lucky enough to be offered pre-school places to take them so this solution worked well for us. BTW we found our fab nanny via the noticeboard in the cafe in local park - saved a fortune on agency fees.

Sorry I wasn't suggesting that childminders were black market nannies, long post and just lost focus. Apologies to all concerned.

Childminders and "blackmarket Nannies" are 2 completly different things

THe ozzie girls you are talking about are more like au pairs

It is illegal to hire them and parents will be fined.

Childminders are registered with OFSTED and inspected each year.

Kangamummy why is it illegal to hire them? I thought you could have whomever you want (registered or unregistered) if they are in your home. Isn't that the concept behind an au pair or nanny?
Personally I use a combination of nanny share, childminder and state nursery for my children. I would leave out the nanny if I could, but I need the flexibility time wise.

I think Kangamummy was meaning that if they were travelling over here they may not have a work permit - so it would be illegal to employ them

Yes what I mean is Blackmarket nannies from oz, nz, or other countries come over here without getting clearance or approval from immagration.

THey come over on holiday visa but then work as au pairs.

When I went to work in Canada there was a very strict imagration system with medicals and each time you changed job had to go back to immagration,

I know nannies at that time were not allowed to go from UK to USA to work but they did it on blackmarket.

I hope I have been correct I am sure that if families employ an illegal blackmarket au pair they are fined several thousand pounds.

If I am wrong then I am very sorry

I think this "black market" employment issue is not specifically about childcare. Anyone who employs someone who does not have to proper work permit / visa is potentially in big trouble. The employer is liable. But, this isn't specific to childcare professionals (nannies, au pair, etc.)

Just to clarify, you can hire anyone you want to look after your children. My nanny is not "qualified" by any registration or official paperwork. But, she is an EU citizen and so can work here in the UK without a work permit or special visa. If you hire someone who does not live in your home, you must pay them minimum wage. However, an employee who lives with you is exempt from minimum wage requirements.

Thanks Sinclair - and for all the useful comments
I get the feeling London is a bit of a drain in terms of costs at every step of the way - i cant imagine finding anything in our local park...(desirable) but its an idea
I guess the word of mouth approach is the best.
Any thoughts on nanny share and the limit to a nannys capacity (considering 1 will be a baby)?

Stardust, we were in the position you will be in. I was really happy with the nursery my son was in and hadn't contemplated getting a nanny when I was considering childcare for him. However, when dd1 was born, due to the really high costs of 2 nursery places we did get a nanny (not live in) and it was fantastic. I don't regret taking ds out of nursery for one minute - a nanny is so much more flexible than a nursery in terms of fitting work in, I had no issues about ds not being stimulated at all, or mixing with other children, as she took them to various groups or clubs (in fact more than I took them to) and in fact in the end he didn't go to a nursery until he was 3 and 9 months. In fact, once I had a nanny, I started to question whether I was right to send ds to nursery at all (but that is a different issue!). It does of course depend on who you find to be a nanny - we used an agency and were really lucky. (btw our nanny was £80 a day, plus tax). hth

Hi stardust - I wasn't in quite your position but similar. DD1 went to a childminder, with whom she was very happy, then we got a nanny when dd2 appeared. I am really pleased with how it's worked. On a practical level it's great - no getting them out of the house in the morning, bathed and in their pjs when I come home - giving me a full and very precious hour doing exactly what they want to do - reading, drawing etc; very tidy house when I get home, bit of help with washing etc - eg changing girls bed linen each week; more flexibility with hours (I work pt and sometimes need to change or extend hours) - but you obviously have to be careful not to take the piss. For the girls too it has been great - they get to do activities that they might not if they were in nursery - ballet, gymnastics, play group, library, going to friends for tea/ having friends round for tea, etc but get nice relaxed down-time at home - have realy learned to play well on their own. The hursery might be a wrench, I can see that, but if you find the right nanny it can work really well. Also - when your eldest is 3 and a half you can get either a p-t place in a state nursery or a contribution towards private nursery - meaning you can combine this with having a nanny without additional cost.

Just wanted to say don't worry -it's not just nurseries who offer fun things to do for babies. My nanny spends most days with two or three other local nannies and the two little boys that they look after have become my dd's friends. As a group they go to baby music, reading at the library, play groups and take it in turns to host tea parties at each others houses.

Every week they have a 'toy swap' too which is great for dd and us. The advantage of a nanny is that they come to you so you don't have to worry about getting your baby ready. With another on the way I would also suggest that the help with washing and cooking (for the babies) will be invaluable. If you find a good nanny, it's great. My dd loves hers and the feeling is very obviously mutual. Good Luck