Full time live in nanny ..inc nights

[khaa2091]

I am just in the process of trying to sort out childcare for when I return to work in September when dd 10 months.

I am a single parent with grandparents nearby, but my normal working day is 0645 to 7pm. I will not be working one day a week, but will be at work from 0645 Wed or Thurs am to 1900 Thurs or Fri pm every 2 weeks. There are also monthlyish nights (where I will be gone 1900 to 0900) and some weekend working, both day and night.

What is reasonable to discuss? I will have a separate annexe with its own entrance which can be used by a nanny, but they will then have to come into the main house (which I would be happy with full access with, whether or not I was there) if working over night. Are overnight hours usually paid at the same rate as daytime? How do the rates usually divide I am also getting help from grandparents and my sister.

I realise that this is an unusual and demanding job and can't see how this is going to work without flexibility on everyone's part (whilst still needing to work fulltime in order to pay for it all). Does anyone else to anything remotely similar, or would you even consider a job that required this?

Any advice / experiences gratefully received....

@SuperbOwls

You need 2 rota nannies - one works a seven day stretch, 24 hours each day, then they have a whole week off and the second nanny takes over. A friend of mine nannies in this way, she prefers it as a shift pattern as it's easier to plan around it, but I can imagine it's expensive to employ!

Two rota nannies on a 24/7 would probably be £120k annually (or more).

It's a little bit difficult to tell what the shift pattern will be, but I don't think the OP needs 24/7 childcare cover.

An average of 60 hours a week is ok for a live-in nanny, though you might need to offer a decent salary to find someone prepared to cover weekends and overnights. Even at minimum wage that's going to be around £30k.

OP that sounds exhausting and like you won’t get much time with your baby at all. Can you cut some hours anywhere?

This is definitely a normal one nanny role.
However, if you’re working NHS you should definitely be able to request flexible working or to do less hours.

Our live in nanny in a similar set up to yours (annex etc, me in NHS role, father works away) doesn’t charge for sleeping time which is good of her. I don’t do nights very often though. She stays in our house for nights, and stops the clock when they’re settled and in bed and starts it when she gets up. All nannies are different though and if I did regular nights or the children were difficult sleepers I’m sure it would be different.

@TawnyPippit

I think you need to speak to a good nanny agency. When I was a first time user, they were incredibly helpful as to what a “good job” would like like to a nanny, and really helped me sculpt the requirement so it worked for me and was attractive to good candidates. There are other solutions, like eg an au pair and a nanny combination. But speak to someone who can look at it from the other end, ie what you are likely to get, and see how you can match that up with what you want/need.

This was my first thought too. An agency will be able to tell you honestly what is realistic and fair to expect in the current market in your area.

My husband and I work similar hours to you. We had a full time (live out) nanny and evenings/ overnight/ weekends were the same price as day shifts. We needed fewer hours than you as we only needed the times we were both working/ sleeping after nights. Our nanny was contracted for 30 hours a week, averaged out over a month and hours given at least a month in advance as like you we work a rolling shift pattern. We didn't have trouble finding a nanny although we did have to guarantee 30 hours which was actually more than we needed but realistically nobody would want the job for only 20 hours.

It is going to be £60k+ a year with employer costs
Not sure how someone gets £30k

@TheHoptimist

It is going to be £60k+ a year with employer costs Not sure how someone gets £30k

Employer costs don't double the salary.

Hi OP. I would definitely agree about asking to reduce your hours even if it is by a day a week if you can. I have had nannies when my children were younger and am friends with some nannies who care for my DC's friends. I think if you want a nanny to work long and flexible hours then you definitely need to pay well. The issue I have seen in a few situations where parents work long hours (and so does nanny) that the nanny gets fed up with the hours and leaves for a better quality of life. If you are going to work long hours then your DC will develop a really strong bond with the nanny (I have seen nannies be made god parents) and you need to be comfortable with this and embrace it rather than resent it (and it can be great for you). I would also see if you could get family members involved (even if occasionally). Good luck , OP !

@khaa2091
I pretty much was the nanny you were looking for ten years ago! I did something very similar for a single parent who was a registrar in a hospital and had hideous shift patterns. I loved it and I wasn't paid £60,000 so don't know where people are getting that from!

OP if you are willing to pay a decent rate I don’t think you will have a problem. The whole reason people employ nannies is because they either have long/odd hours or need flexibility.

Our nanny works 60 hours a week and has probably averaged 2 overnights a year when me and OH had clashing business travel. I made it quite clear at the interview stage that we needed someone who was happy to work late once or twice a week and could cover overnight on the rare occasion we needed it. We had no shortage of applicants, probably because we pay a very good rate.

As you said, you know your shifts well in advance which for some people will be preferable to working for a lawyer or banker who is constantly late home and never knows what they’re up to from one week to the next.

Also a medic. I dropped my hours to 8 sessions after I finished ML and have moved jobs so I do NROC rather than shifts, it helps a lot and means I can use nursery. You must be on 12 sessions minimum if you're a consultant with those hours. When is your SPA time? I'd be asking for CPD to be job planned from home (mine is) so that you do it late evenings after kid is asleep and then get to actually spend some awake time with her more than once a week and let the nanny off "early" regularly. Even on a 12 session consultant job you'll struggle to afford 2 nannies.

I'd recommend asking in PMGUK or MMM and your local medic mums group - there will for sure be people who can give you recommendations

khaa2091

I’d look for two nannies/ child minder or and a babysitter, job share

60 hours is a fair chunk to cover

Not sure how much you earn, but UC will help with 70% of childcare up to around £45/50k per year earning for solo parents

Employer costs don't double the salary.

But it isn't a minimum age job

£20 an hour for a nanny in London/SE- they also work on gross not net.

[quote whatacarryon2018]@khaa2091
I pretty much was the nanny you were looking for ten years ago! I did something very similar for a single parent who was a registrar in a hospital and had hideous shift patterns. I loved it and I wasn't paid £60,000 so don't know where people are getting that from! [/quote]
10 years ago!

Being an nanny isnt a minimum wage job
Live in can only be deducted at a fair cost
No supply of cheaper EE nannies any more

£15 net is £20 an hour

On a £30k salary employer costs would be just under £3k for employer's NI, about £700 for pension contributions and maybe around £300 for a payroll company.

Then there are some other costs like employer's liability insurance, food, heating/electricity for the nanny's accommodation, mileage/providing a car, activities.

£35-£40k would be a good full time live-in salary, but especially outside of London, £60k is not realistic for a role that isn't 24/7 or a rota.

It's not an unusual ask, as long as the pay is good I imagine you won't have any trouble filling the role.

I've worked for people in the forces, pilots and single parents who travel, done 24/6 care, it's quite normal in the nanny world.

@TheHoptimist

Employer costs don't double the salary.

But it isn't a minimum age job

£20 an hour for a nanny in London/SE- they also work on gross not net.

I don't think I have ever seen a live in nanny role at £60+k - if you have seen some adverts with that kind of a salary please link to them.

@busyeatingbiscuits

On a £30k salary employer costs would be just under £3k for employer's NI, about £700 for pension contributions and maybe around £300 for a payroll company.

Then there are some other costs like employer's liability insurance, food, heating/electricity for the nanny's accommodation, mileage/providing a car, activities.

£35-£40k would be a good full time live-in salary, but especially outside of London, £60k is not realistic for a role that isn't 24/7 or a rota.

It isnt a £30k role- that would be less that the minimum wage based on 60 hours a week.

No, minimum wage for over 22s is currently £8.91 (£27799) and will increase to £9.50 (£29,640) from April.

It's live in though so accommodation included I would assume

@AbandonedShed

It's live in though so accommodation included I would assume

You can deduct £60 a week from minimum wage for accommodation, so instead of £29640 the minimum you could pay would be £26,473.20.

I think it would be pretty hard to recruit for a role with these hours offering £26k though. Maybe someone very new to nannying or stepping up from nursery or au pairing into a first sole charge role.

@cdba88
Hilarious that people think these are mad hours.
06:45-20:00 are normal hours in the nhs.

Why on earth is it hilarious? Those hours ARE awful! Just because it's become normal doesn't mean they're not 'mad' hours. I find it dreadful that this sort of lifestyle has become the norm.... I don't think anything about this situation is 'hilarious'!

Dear op. I have done this. I am a single parent working full time with extensive business travel so often away overnight during the week. I have no family support. I had a live in nanny who was paid a good wage and happy to cover the midweek overnights. When she left after six years I had a lot of good applications for replacements. So it’s is absolutely possible. It’s not cheap and you will be paying between 30 and 40k plus accommodation and pension etc

Either- rota nannies on week on/ off contracts or 25/5 nanny. This would cover you for nights either way, I think. Proxy parenting is often part of the job. Grandparents number could possibly be available as emergency contact/ back up if required.
If you have not done so, maybe check out some nanny agencies for an overview of these types of roles? (Sorry, but not sure I can mention any by name here).
Congratulations on your baby 💐

It should be possible, it's fairly normal nanny hours and good live in accommodation with separate entrance and being allowed overnight guests would make it attractive. My friends paid £25k plus costs for their live in nanny 4 years ago in herts.