Nanny Central London

[MsKBee]

Hello,

Im looking to see the going rate for a full time live out nanny with three DCs. We found a good nanny over 2 years ago for our DS and DD, and we are about to welcome our third DD in January. We haven’t raised her salary, as we thought she negotiated a pretty good price back when she started. She is getting £12 net / hour, which we think represents her knowledge (QTS) and few years of experience.

She seemed to have developed an attitude lately, and we are afraid she would walk out on us. So we would like to offer her a reasonable price.

Other parents around us pay higher hourly rates (15-17net), but they only pay tax after a small portion of the nanny’s salary. (Central London)

What would you suggest as a reasonable price?

www.nannytax.co.uk/nanny-salary-index

You are paying well below the average.

Does QTS mean qualified teacher status?

If so, then you'll be lucky to keep her at £15 net ph - experienced nannies with teaching qualifications can land extremely well paid nanny/governess type roles

What am I missing?
Nannytax states that “ Live-out nannies in Central London earn an average gross wage of £14.49 an hour.” This is gross, in 2021, no?

Yes, QTS means qualified teacher status - we were quite happy having her during these past two years 📚

I was comparing to the pay rates for QTS/governess type work -which is between £40-65k pa gross. So the net hourly rate which converts to the lower end of that is around £15

Sorry, should have been clearer about the two prongs!!

What's her gross hourly rate amount to?

A little above £16 gross with everything we have to pay

You really should be agreeing a gross wage. I don't know why people still agree net wages.

The nanny tax wage thing has always been lower then what I earnt

And I’m Kent so not London

And gross gross gross not nett

If you’re going to review her salary, it would seem a good time to change to gross. I’ve never understood why nannies expect a net salary. You’ll get stung for the NI changes if you don’t do it so.

Using what other people you know locally are paying as a guide is probably the way to go. If they paying £3-5ph more then it sounds like your nanny could earn more elsewhere but there are of course other factors at play such as her experience as a nanny and how many hours a role is offering.

The gross pay is her taxable pay, not including 'everything you have to pay'. ie.. before Employers NI.

I would do a little bit of research around what she might be able to earn elsewhere.. as a qualified teacher with a couple of years experience, she could be earning £36K a year, school hours with substantial holidays (during which she might be able to earn extra money, or simply benefit from fabulous holidays.). The average UK primary school teacher is at school for 190 days, whereas assuming your nanny gets 25 days holiday, she is working for 235.

How many hours does she work? Does she do school days (6 hours), 9-5 (37.5 hours a week plus she works through her lunch) or does she do 8-6, (10 hour days, 50 hour weeks,) or perhaps even more..

And more crucially..... it is obvious to you that she is 'developing an attitude'... this would be very concerning as a nanny employer. There could be many reasons for this... not least that in 4 months time, her job will significantly change. Have you discussed this with her? She may be completely unsure whether you plan to keep her on or simply give her a months notice, how long you plan to have as maternity leave and whether you plan to keep her during that or expect her to cut her hours and pick them back up when you return to work. She may also be wary of doing shared care, many nannies do not like working when Mum Boss is in the house and not working, it can blur lines of responsibility and lead to resentment on both sides. And finally, she may not want to be a nanny for a newborn, a baby or for three children. Many nannies would also not choose this job. If she is a qualified teacher, she may have no experience with babies.

In short... you need to decide what the increase in responsibility is worth in terms of increase in salary. Three is hectic and more exhausting than two! You also need to find out what her thoughts are and explain your plans to her. It may be that she is not the nanny for you going forward and you need to may need to manage the relationship for the next few months so you all feel comfortable and are not reading things into the situation that are not there.

I wish you the best, change can be difficult for everyone.

£14-£18 gross seems the typical range for central London.

Personally I’d focus on what she could earn as a nanny rather than a teacher. She has chosen a job as a nanny and that is what you are employing her for.

@crazyguineapiglady

£14-£18 gross seems the typical range for central London.

She has been earning over £16 gross for the past two years.

@ChateauMargaux

The gross pay is her taxable pay, not including 'everything you have to pay'. ie.. before Employers NI.

I would do a little bit of research around what she might be able to earn elsewhere.. as a qualified teacher with a couple of years experience, she could be earning £36K a year, school hours with substantial holidays (during which she might be able to earn extra money, or simply benefit from fabulous holidays.). The average UK primary school teacher is at school for 190 days, whereas assuming your nanny gets 25 days holiday, she is working for 235.

How many hours does she work? Does she do school days (6 hours), 9-5 (37.5 hours a week plus she works through her lunch) or does she do 8-6, (10 hour days, 50 hour weeks,) or perhaps even more..

And more crucially..... it is obvious to you that she is 'developing an attitude'... this would be very concerning as a nanny employer. There could be many reasons for this... not least that in 4 months time, her job will significantly change. Have you discussed this with her? She may be completely unsure whether you plan to keep her on or simply give her a months notice, how long you plan to have as maternity leave and whether you plan to keep her during that or expect her to cut her hours and pick them back up when you return to work. She may also be wary of doing shared care, many nannies do not like working when Mum Boss is in the house and not working, it can blur lines of responsibility and lead to resentment on both sides. And finally, she may not want to be a nanny for a newborn, a baby or for three children. Many nannies would also not choose this job. If she is a qualified teacher, she may have no experience with babies.

In short... you need to decide what the increase in responsibility is worth in terms of increase in salary. Three is hectic and more exhausting than two! You also need to find out what her thoughts are and explain your plans to her. It may be that she is not the nanny for you going forward and you need to may need to manage the relationship for the next few months so you all feel comfortable and are not reading things into the situation that are not there.

I wish you the best, change can be difficult for everyone.

She is working 50+ hours a week. Quite experienced, as before she taught in primary, she was a nanny for several years. She is great with newborns - seen her working with them before.

I understand it might be easier to get a different nanny than to work out her raise. She won’t agree to gross salary - we have tried.
It is quite difficult to find the right person who is hard working and loyal.

Thank you for all the pointers, I think I didn’t think through the situation from every perspective.
We would like to keep her on, but not at all cost.
We’ll have a chat with my husband than have The Conversation with her.

Thank you all again

If you haven't given her a pay rise in 2 years then effectively she's had a pay cut, so especially with the new baby I would definitely give her a raise.

If she's on £16 gross now then maybe up it to £16.75-£17.

Great news that she was a nanny before being a teacher and that she has experience with new borns.

A pay rise does seem like the right thing to offer.. but as. you say, it is not at all costs. If she rejects your offer, then there is not much you can do. However, maybe it is another factor that is playing on her mind..

Nanny having a conversation in her own head.. MsKBee has told me she is having another baby, shit, does that mean that she will expect me to cut my hours while she is at home, how the hell will I pay the bills if she does, I hope she doesn't expect me to work part time for less money and then just pick up with an extra child when she goes back to work, the reason I gave up teaching was that I didn't like having loads of kids around, it will be mayhem with three, shit... what am I going to do, she is being really unreasonable if she expects me to cut my hours,

and then that gets blown out of proportion in her head, she assumes you are being unreasonable, she can't believe you have carried on every day, knowing that you are going to cut her hours and not telling her, because you are selfish and you don't value her as an employee, you are just going to hand her her notice and leave her up shits creek with 4 weeks to find a new job and only 2 weeks redundancy pay, she can see how much your eldest loves his nursery hours, maybe you will send the older two to nursery and stay home for a year with the baby and then get a cheaper nanny when you go back.. things are going to be tight with an extra child in the house, maybe you will give up work altogether, move to the country and get goats, I bet you got all this planned out and you don't want to tell her so she stays till the baby arrives.

And suddenly she is grumpy all the time... and as soon as you open your mouth she tells you she is looking for another job and will leave when the baby arrives and nothing you can do will stop her..

Can you tell I have been through this.. it hit me like a train and it didn't go well... I managed to convince her to stay when the baby arrived but somehow she had changed in her attitude towards me and it was really awkward when I was at home. We parted ways, mid maternity leave and I got a new nanny when I went back to work.

She won’t agree to gross salary - we have tried

You are her boss. You tell her that she is going to gross. Like 99% of employed people

If she doesn’t like it she’s free to find a new job

I agree with @Blondeshavemorefun

If you offer a pay rise it’s on the understanding the agreed salary is gross.

Honestly, you are her employer. I would insist on gross before you get stung with extra outgoings. If she doesn't like it, she'll be lucky to find another job as net pay!