Terminating Childminder, Advise required!

[larryson]

Hi all,

We need some advise on a current situation about terminating our contract with our childminder.

We switched childminder provider to one that is more conveniently located to our home. We went by her place a while back and signed the documents 2 months back.

Fast forward till today, it has been the first two weeks, spending 4 days a week. However, my daughter, which is 17 months old, has a real trouble adjusting. She has been ill since starting with this childminder, and one occasion she came home with no voice from all the crying. On the same day, the childminder messaged to us to pick up earlier than the agreed time.

None of this happened with the prior childminder. We also had a student covering during the prior childminder's holiday and everything went smoothly.

We are very concern over the well being continuing with the same childminder, as she has been screaming at night and her personality has changed drastically.

The issue we have is around the contract and notice period. The childminder would like us to still pay for the 4 week and if we choose not to bring her there there is a 20% discount. We can't afford to pay her 80% of her fee and pay the former childminder.

What rights do we have here given that it is evident that this relationship is not working out? There is no break clause. And we are concern of the long term damage this could have if she should continue with this childminder. In addition, she is only taking care of two children, my daughter and someone else, so this isn't an issue of attention.

@jannier yes you do have to pay to take someone to court for a financial dispute, what makes you think you don't?

@Soontobe60

You’re making some pretty bold accusations here. You’ve changed cm for your convenience and your dd hasn’t yet settled in. I’m not surprised. She’s been removed from someone she was supposedly settled with, left with a complete stranger in an alien environment plus she has been ill. What exactly did the cm do that caused your dd to end up in hospital, and how do you know your dd spent all day crying?

Absolutely! Very bold accusations! I'd be careful if I were you

abuse is likely not the right word, more likely a style that is not compatible for my DD.

Wow. Just wow.

[quote TeachesOfPeaches]@jannier yes you do have to pay to take someone to court for a financial dispute, what makes you think you don't?[/quote]
The CM will be insured, so it won't cost her anything because her insurance will pay.

Childminders are self employed and have to account for liability which is why they have the standard notice period of 4 weeks. It's their livelihood at the end of the day.
If you have signed a contract and don't pay, she can take you to a small claims court, it's not worth it at the end of the day.
Can you negotiate paying in instalments across a few months if that makes it a bit more manageable?

My DD cried all day every day in her first week of Nursery, she also caught every infection known to man..
I think you are perhaps being a bit dramatic and accusing her of abuse, but then this is your child and not mine and you can only go with what your gut feeling is saying.
You haven't really given it a chance. It can take some number of weeks for a child to feel fully adjusted into a childcare setting .

@TeachesOfPeaches
Her insurance includes full legal cover they take the parents to court so it costs the cm nothing.
The parent is likely in breech of contract for taking a sick child to childcare especially in times of covid. Probably another dosed on Calpol at 8 and going down hill 4 hours later.

[quote jannier]@lillyson
If I was your cm and read your post I'd be taking legal action against you especially now you've admitted it was a false accusation. No wonder she dosent want you back....Im imagining she has actually said you can't return as you have caused an irretrievable breakdown of the relationship, in which case she can ask for money as your in breach. You can't just go around accusing people of abuse trying to cause untold hurt possible loss of a job and prosecution just becouse you're ducking payment. Your child was unwell...probably why you were called as the law states you need to collect your child and go for a pcr test as showing covid symptoms....why go to A&E risking others? Or is it becouse you didn't want a pcr and dont want to keep her home 10 days so hoping to use someone else?[/quote]
Jannier - are you her?

I was expecting more support than getting attacked by fellow mums. I'm clearly on the wrong forum.

Just a few to clear things to clear the air. - on the high fever, both me and my DD had the PCR test, and we tested negative for COVID-19.

I'm not massively exaggerating in order to avoid paying fees. In fact, husband paid until end of October without discussing with me. So I am 5 weeks out of pocket of childcare fees. CM is ignoring refund request and not taking child given our soured relationship now.

In my contract it says CM can terminate immediately with no notice, but I need to give 4 weeks notice. So it doesn't go both ways. I also don't have the settling in period section lizzy3595 mentioned.

I do admit it is my fault that I didn't read the contract in detail, thinking it was a standard one that is fair.

@lillyson I think the initial claims of 'abuse' have skewed people's perceptions of your situation. It's abhorrent to claim abuse when there's been zero evidence of it so far. You've changed your mind about your childcare choice and your provider, as per contract, is not refunding the notice period. Given your outrageous claims on here I would imagine the cm has had something similar which is why she's refusing to have child back (which is understandable) and pp is right. If I was your cm and read this thread I would be horrified and can see why pp mentioned bringing a case against you for that. This is someone's livelihood and accusations of abuse would put a stop to their career instantly which is awful if they're false in order to avoid paying contracted fees

OP - a month's notice is pretty standard. It would be the same if it was a nursery and private schools are a term's notice.

A contract having an unfair term doesn't negate it.

If you did go to court, you'd need to prove that the childminder wasn't treating your child correctly, which I think would be difficult. Sometimes children don't settle.

I'd move on and try not to let it bother you too much.

I was expecting more support than getting attacked by fellow mums. I'm clearly on the wrong forum.

You expected people to support you when you're making false allegations of abuse against a childminder

People have given you advice. You're not being attacked by other mums, they're rightly calling out your vile untrue accusations which could result in somone losing their job.

OP - you say you didn't want to be attacked but you've changed your tone right through this. To claim abuse because of a 'difference of style' is abhorrent! Let's face it, you just don't want to pay a notice period and to get people on side you've changed your tone throughout this thread.

To fling about claims of abuse can literally destroy someone's livelihood as well as their reputation and mental health!

In future, read contracts fully as this is all down to you not checking the details. Also, accept that things WILL be different from one setting to another and that your child WILL need to settle in. Don't just presume that your child crying all day is because the childminder is doing something wrong. Your child being unsettled is probably due to swapping and changing childminders which is down to your decision to do so to make life 'easier'

Based on what I’ve read here it sounds like the relationship has broken down irreparably. There may well be a difference in style - but allegations of abuse are a bit far fetched and it is entirely possible your child was particularly unsettled because they were coming down with a bug, rather than the other way round.

You will need to refer to your contract for notice periods. I would expect that if I was paying for a service during a notice period that I would continue to receive it, though I can imagine in your case that if the relationship is irreparable that I may not want to send my child. I think that the 20% discount on fees if not sending is more than generous. The difference is if the childminder is refusing to have the child and still expecting payment.

@lillyson
No I am not her but I work with cms who get viciously attacked in this way and always advise they take legal action.
New child to setting cries a lot....normal especially after Covid how do you think she should stop this? Holding unsettled children all day means neglect of others and does not help them settle. How does she stop lo what did you suggest?
Child has tempreture....and? Child has sore throat but brain dosent link tempreture and throat oh no it must be screaming...seriously nobody would think that it's an excuse.

If you had gone back sat and discussed it most would suggest stepping back on hours and doing settling....did you ask?
The word abuse was vial unsubstantiated and means if people really have cause to suspect things they will be less likely to seek support becouse they will fear not being believed...well done you.

I wouldn't rely on the legal 'advice' you received from someone here.

[quote lizzy3595]This is a fascinating post. I work in the legal sector so would like to provide my two cents. This goes against most of the comments from other moms, so I apologies for my differing views.

If I read correctly, you have only started with this new childminder for two weeks and things are not working out.

If this is indeed true, you should be able to terminate without notice. This is because you are still within the typical 'settling-in' period which is around two to four weeks. This is usually noted in a separate area in the contract, if not, it is not a fair contract and won't stand in court.

I would suggest you pay one more week and see how things goes. If things are still the same, you should terminate immediately. The incompatibility might be down to a caretaking style, and your daugther is expressing it by crying. Please note, you will not be able to terminate without notice once you exceed four weeks.

If this escalates to a court situation, you will even be able to countersue if you have incurred any cost during the two week settling period (ie. if you took time off, bill for your daily rate) and legal costs. Given it has only been two weeks, the case is really weak for the childminder to demand compensation.

I would advise not to escalate to the Ofsted level, as this is someone else's livelihood.

I would thread carefully with most of the comments here, some are plain inaccurate and providing really bad advice. You are her mom and want the best for your daugther. Good luck.

More for the OP to read,
www.pacey.org.uk/parents/working-with-your-childcarer/contracts-and-agreements/[/quote]
You may work in the legal sector but you haven't said you are a solicitor or barrister.

If you were, like some of my friends, you would never state a contact is unfair without seeing it in full first.

I should add my own CM's contact doesn't give me a probation period so if my DD didn't settle I would have had to pay the 4 weeks notice period in full unless I could negotiate it down.

If you have signed a contract and don't pay, she can take you to a small claims court, it's not worth it at the end of the day.

Some self-employed people do take non-paying clients to the court if they have a reputation to uphold.

Also it allows them to get the word out that particular client is unreliable and should be avoided by other providers if they win the case.

Expecting your child to be settled completely with a new childminder after two weeks is very optimistic. And just because your child was ok one day, doesn't mean they can't be ill the next!
I've had children who have taken 3 months to settle completely. Just because they're ok with whoever else they've been left with, doesn't mean that they're going to be ok immediately with a new childminder.
When I have new children in my setting, I always tell parents that they will pick up every sniffle going to start with- it happens every single time!
If there is a settling in period in your contract then you can use that to terminate her space, if not then you have to pay the 4 weeks. However, she can't refuse care for your child if you are paying it.

@hookiewookie29
She may be able to refuse care if the op has been defamatory, abusive or threatening. But still get paid.

@hookiewookie29

Expecting your child to be settled completely with a new childminder after two weeks is very optimistic. And just because your child was ok one day, doesn't mean they can't be ill the next! I've had children who have taken 3 months to settle completely. Just because they're ok with whoever else they've been left with, doesn't mean that they're going to be ok immediately with a new childminder. When I have new children in my setting, I always tell parents that they will pick up every sniffle going to start with- it happens every single time! If there is a settling in period in your contract then you can use that to terminate her space, if not then you have to pay the 4 weeks. However, she can't refuse care for your child if you are paying it.

She settled in 3-4 days with the 2 former childminders, so I don't see why this would be different. Everyone has said my DD is so easy going.

I have paid and she has refuse care.

So now she's been with 2 former childminders before the new one? No wonder she's having trouble settling. 3 different childminders in what would have been a short period of time, considering she is 17 months, is enough to unsettle even the most easy going child! Then there's the fact that all children have a period of separation anxiety at some point which can come out of the blue

She settled in 3-4 days with the 2 former childminders, so I don't see why this would be different. Everyone has said my DD is so easy going.

Again this seems to imply the current childminder is doing something wrong, and it must be her fault your DD hasn't settled.

Your DD has had a lot of changes in childcare in a short period of time. She's also older and could be going through seperation anxiety. Just because she settled quickly in the past doesn't mean this will always be the case.

To be fair you're stating here clearly that she settled before in 3-4 days so she should again? Firstly it doesn't seem like you've even given her the 3-4 days to settle so it's not even a comparison. Secondly children also go thru different phases at different points where they are more clingy etc or wouldn't be surprising (or be the childminders fault) if a child wasn't settling that had settled well somewhere else a while ago

Amazes me how many parents pull out the abuse card to try and get out of paying their notice period. In 10yrs I've been on the receiving end of such claims and on both occasions I've actually self referred to Ofsted and the LA safeguarding board before the parents have, they're claims had more holes than Swiss cheese! Obviously both claims were unfounded and the parents had to pay as per the terms of the contact.

As other posters have said your child was experiencing difficulty in settling which is probably due to a combination of covid and too many changes in childcare providers in a short space of time and the fact that your child hasn't been fully well doing this period, most children just want mum or dad and home comforts when they are unwell. I currently have a child who was born in the first lockdown he's now been with me for 6 months and still cries at drop off and has only just started to stop crying at pick up but he's absolutely fine minutes after being dropped off.

I would suggest going forward with any other childcare setting that you read and fully understand any contract you sign and that you ask for more settling in sessions to help your child transition and settle at a slower pace.

OP if you're not careful you are going to get blacklisted. Words like abuse have meaning and you need to think before you speak.