Terminating Childminder, Advise required!

[larryson]

Hi all,

We need some advise on a current situation about terminating our contract with our childminder.

We switched childminder provider to one that is more conveniently located to our home. We went by her place a while back and signed the documents 2 months back.

Fast forward till today, it has been the first two weeks, spending 4 days a week. However, my daughter, which is 17 months old, has a real trouble adjusting. She has been ill since starting with this childminder, and one occasion she came home with no voice from all the crying. On the same day, the childminder messaged to us to pick up earlier than the agreed time.

None of this happened with the prior childminder. We also had a student covering during the prior childminder's holiday and everything went smoothly.

We are very concern over the well being continuing with the same childminder, as she has been screaming at night and her personality has changed drastically.

The issue we have is around the contract and notice period. The childminder would like us to still pay for the 4 week and if we choose not to bring her there there is a 20% discount. We can't afford to pay her 80% of her fee and pay the former childminder.

What rights do we have here given that it is evident that this relationship is not working out? There is no break clause. And we are concern of the long term damage this could have if she should continue with this childminder. In addition, she is only taking care of two children, my daughter and someone else, so this isn't an issue of attention.

But she hasn’t necessarily done a bad job. Your daughter had built up a relationship with a previous childminder that you chose to break up to find a new childminder because it was closer to your house. You were then apparently anticipating a near seamless transition.

When that hasn’t occurred you are blaming the childminder. There were costs and benefits to shifting your daughter - the benefit is it is much more convenient. The cost is your daughter hasn’t transferred easily.
The new childminder might be awful or it might be you prioritised convenience over your daughter’s relationship with her previous childminder and have now discovered it can’t be easily replicated.

Reading the contract, it seems to favour the childminder and not the parent. This is unlikely to hold up in court.

It sounds as if you are only now reading the contact for the first time.
Didn't you read it before you signed it? And if you did, why did you sign it if you didn't agree to the terms outlined in it?

This is a fascinating post. I work in the legal sector so would like to provide my two cents. This goes against most of the comments from other moms, so I apologies for my differing views.

If I read correctly, you have only started with this new childminder for two weeks and things are not working out.

If this is indeed true, you should be able to terminate without notice. This is because you are still within the typical 'settling-in' period which is around two to four weeks. This is usually noted in a separate area in the contract, if not, it is not a fair contract and won't stand in court.

I would suggest you pay one more week and see how things goes. If things are still the same, you should terminate immediately. The incompatibility might be down to a caretaking style, and your daugther is expressing it by crying. Please note, you will not be able to terminate without notice once you exceed four weeks.

If this escalates to a court situation, you will even be able to countersue if you have incurred any cost during the two week settling period (ie. if you took time off, bill for your daily rate) and legal costs. Given it has only been two weeks, the case is really weak for the childminder to demand compensation.

I would advise not to escalate to the Ofsted level, as this is someone else's livelihood.

I would thread carefully with most of the comments here, some are plain inaccurate and providing really bad advice. You are her mom and want the best for your daugther. Good luck.

More for the OP to read,
www.pacey.org.uk/parents/working-with-your-childcarer/contracts-and-agreements/

I would just pay her for the 2 weeks she has been there
She hasn’t tried very hard to settle your child or reassure you that all is well
Maybe she isn’t very experienced

You’re making some pretty bold accusations here. You’ve changed cm for your convenience and your dd hasn’t yet settled in. I’m not surprised. She’s been removed from someone she was supposedly settled with, left with a complete stranger in an alien environment plus she has been ill.
What exactly did the cm do that caused your dd to end up in hospital, and how do you know your dd spent all day crying?

@larryson

We are a bit concern of abuse actually.

Of the 8 days, 1 of the days she had to be in the hospital after spending a day with her. And another because we were concern as she lost her voice from all the crying.

So you say your little one was in hospital after spending the day with the CM. What was she is hospital for? It sounds like yes, she was poorly (if needing to be in hospital) but I don't see how that's the cm's fault. Children do get poorly whether that be whilst at hone with parents or while in childcare.

Sometimes it does take a little while for little ones to settle in and there may be lots of tears. This doesn't show abuse! It shows that little one just needs more time, especially after being uprooted from the original childminder.

Just block her and wait to see if she will try to take you to court. Unlikely as it will cost her money.

I would advise not to escalate to the Ofsted level, as this is someone else's livelihood.

If OP genuinely is worried about actual abuse then it needs to be reported - someone’s livelihood doesn’t trump children’s welfare
If the OP is in fact massively exaggerating in order to avoid paying fees that are laid out in a contract that she signed, then yes maybe she should not report a false accusation.
I personally think 17 months can be a tricky age for adjusting to a new care giver. Her being ill may simply coincide with going to a new childminder which will make the situation more tricky. Expecting things to started out exactly the same as things were with a previous child minder is naive and foolish.

How more local is cm

Seems weird you changed cm if happy at old one

Even if cm cuddles dd all day she may have cried

My friend is a cm and had a new 11mth. Who cries most days as she is settling.

Why was dd in hospital

You signed the contract and was happy with it then I assume

@Soontobe60

You’re making some pretty bold accusations here. You’ve changed cm for your convenience and your dd hasn’t yet settled in. I’m not surprised. She’s been removed from someone she was supposedly settled with, left with a complete stranger in an alien environment plus she has been ill. What exactly did the cm do that caused your dd to end up in hospital, and how do you know your dd spent all day crying?

Hi, Op here, overwhelmed with the support and responses. Thank you all.

Wanted to clarify a few things, abuse is likely not the right word, more likely a style that is not compatible for my DD.

We had a few care providers. In the holiday period when the former CM was on holiday, we had two students covering on their break. The settling-in period was literally non-existent.

We have paid for the first two weeks in advance.

I was expecting to resolve this amicably, but it seems like the CM is more concern over the money than how we can make this work. Now she is proposing we pay her the 4 weeks, but we are not allowed to bring her in for childcare.

We had two settling in session lasting a few hours. After the second visit, she developed high fever the next day. She then recovered fully.

We know she spent all day crying as she completly lost her voice. It was not sore throat, she was perfectly fine the day before.

Sadly it's not uncommon for parents to not read the contract and find themselves surprised by its contents later. When they find they don't like the T&C's the abuse card comes next. It's actually a very scary position to be on as a childminder having done nothing wrong.

Now she is proposing we pay her the 4 weeks, but we are not allowed to bring her in for childcare

I’m not sure she can do that really.

From my experience with childminders it’s pretty simple - if they can’t offer the service they agreed to provide, you don’t pay. Basically if my childminder needs the day off, I don’t pay for that. Often that means she’s arranged with a childminder friend to take him and they get paid instead.
I your child for what ever reason needs to stay home or you choose to keep them home you still pay - so if DS is ill I still pay.

If you choose to take your child out because the childminder’s style is not ‘compatible’ that’s on you and I would say you need to still pay. Now she’s refusing to take your child then you shouldn’t. She’s shot herself in the foot with that one.

Eh? You've really changed your tune now. You were claiming abuse but now we're hearing that it's just that child isn't settled. It's really unfair on the childminder that you've jumped to abuse just to get out of paying. Of course the childminder is predominantly worried about the money. It's her bread and butter and the reason she looks after these children. Even when they're crying all day long. I think she's earned it tbh. I'm not surprised she doesn't want to have the child for the notice period especially if you've said half of the things you've said on here. Childminders are in a very vulnerable position and you've proved why here.

If she had a high fever it’s very likely the child had a sore throat which could make her hoarse! How did the childminder cause the fever? My guess is she didn’t and you’re just looking for any excuse not to pay her. No wonder she doesn’t want you back you come across as a total nightmare.

So she was looked after by a childminder who then went on holiday, then students then moved elsewhere and was poorly. At 17 months no wonder she was out of sorts. That’s a lot of people and change for a baby in a short space of time.

If you’re worried something untoward happens you need to take it further. But it sounds more that your child struggled to settle and the childminder was a bit overwhelmed, your child clearly wasn’t well with a high temp then time in hospital on top of all the other stuff and parents who sound stressed out. Sounds like the relationship between you and cm isn’t good. But can it be retrieved and made right? Pull back and use these 2 weeks for your daughter to try to settle again if she’s feeling better. Otherwise you’re going to go through similar with another childminder and that’s another person and another setting and that’s an awful lot for your daughter.

You've changed your tone so much throughout this. You mentioned abuse (which is a horrific statement to make against a childminder) and now it's suddenly just a difference in style.

To be honest, I think your childminder has dodged a bullet with you!

Children after lock down are having difficulties adjusting and finding it much harder to settle. Having a babysitter to your home is obviously easier as baby is in home environment whilst not insured or properly vetted etc. But it disent solve the actual settling problem. Did you just up and dump her in new childcare or did you take a few weeks or longer to settle her? She is now at an age where attachment is harder so obviously harder to adjust than previous childminder ( or was it babysitter post is a bit confusing) even if they hadn't been in lockdown the majority of their lives.
Lots of sore throats going on so why assume it's neglect over crying? And you don't go to hospital with a sore throat.....or do you mean that's how long you sat in A&E becouse she wasn't a priority?
Rather nasty to try claiming abuse to get out of paying and Ofsted tend to be very wise to this one.

The facts of the matter are you signed a contract and are deciding to terminate it. Unless there’s a cooling off period, you still have to pay it. Bizarre that you’d even care enough about the money if you feel it’s not a good match for your daughter. Pay up and take her out.

[quote lizzy3595]This is a fascinating post. I work in the legal sector so would like to provide my two cents. This goes against most of the comments from other moms, so I apologies for my differing views.

If I read correctly, you have only started with this new childminder for two weeks and things are not working out.

If this is indeed true, you should be able to terminate without notice. This is because you are still within the typical 'settling-in' period which is around two to four weeks. This is usually noted in a separate area in the contract, if not, it is not a fair contract and won't stand in court.

I would suggest you pay one more week and see how things goes. If things are still the same, you should terminate immediately. The incompatibility might be down to a caretaking style, and your daugther is expressing it by crying. Please note, you will not be able to terminate without notice once you exceed four weeks.

If this escalates to a court situation, you will even be able to countersue if you have incurred any cost during the two week settling period (ie. if you took time off, bill for your daily rate) and legal costs. Given it has only been two weeks, the case is really weak for the childminder to demand compensation.

I would advise not to escalate to the Ofsted level, as this is someone else's livelihood.

I would thread carefully with most of the comments here, some are plain inaccurate and providing really bad advice. You are her mom and want the best for your daugther. Good luck.

More for the OP to read,
www.pacey.org.uk/parents/working-with-your-childcarer/contracts-and-agreements/[/quote]
I also work in the legal sector and I do not know how you can possibly give any advice about a contract you haven't seen. You certainly can't claim it is unfair if you haven't seen the terms.

@lillyson
If I was your cm and read your post I'd be taking legal action against you especially now you've admitted it was a false accusation. No wonder she dosent want you back....Im imagining she has actually said you can't return as you have caused an irretrievable breakdown of the relationship, in which case she can ask for money as your in breach. You can't just go around accusing people of abuse trying to cause untold hurt possible loss of a job and prosecution just becouse you're ducking payment. Your child was unwell...probably why you were called as the law states you need to collect your child and go for a pcr test as showing covid symptoms....why go to A&E risking others? Or is it becouse you didn't want a pcr and dont want to keep her home 10 days so hoping to use someone else?

We had two settling in session lasting a few hours. After the second visit, she developed high fever the next day. She then recovered fully.

What are you suggesting that the childminder did?

I agree with others that you've made some serious allegations and then backtracked, 4 weeks notice period is standard and cuts both ways. If you were happy but the childminder changed their mind, they'd also have to give you 4 weeks notice- it protects both parties.

OP your timeline is really confusing. How many full days did your child do at the childminders? Even if she did cry all day, what is the issue other than she hasn't settled in yet?

My DD took 3 weeks of crying at the doorstep to re-settle after the first lockdown and at that point she'd been with her CM for a year.

You keep referring to students having your child. Was that at your home by any chance?

As for the contract, nobody can really comment about it without seeing the terms. I think we had an initial probation period but it was clearly stated in the contract. It should be pretty obvious if you have one.

I wouldn't be particularly impressed with the suggestion that your child is not allowed there for the remainder of the notice period and would question that - however, given you've equated the childminder's conduct to abuse I'm not sure you'd want your child there anyway.

If the CM is refusing to have your child then I think you'd have grounds on which to argue that she shouldn't get paid UNLESS the contract says something else. What does it say about notice periods?

Did you give your child a PCR test? If you didn't, then your CM would have been well within her rights to refuse to take your child for the 10 day isolation period.

@ClemDanFango
Lots of cases of parents trying to move children rather than test or isolate which childcare have to ask parents to do. This child had a temp and sore throat both symptoms of Delta strain.

@TeachesOfPeaches
She dose not have to pay to take her clients to court. So advising ignoring it is not good advice.....I hope you don't try this trick would you like to not get paid or get notice?