Mother’s Helper vaping

[TwinMum35]

I did try to post this in childcare first

What would you do in my situation? Long one sorry!

We have 7mth twins and managed to find a Mother’s Helper when they were 4 months. We live in a small place and we had been looking since they were born.

For background; She is very loving with the babies and is certainly more focused on them than any other tasks which perhaps is a source of irritation for me. I’m hoping this isn’t clouding my judgment.
She came with a spectacular reference from another twin parent and she works 40hrs per week with us. She claimed to be a non-smoker in her application.

When she first started she used the bathroom an unusual amount and I had no idea why until my husband said after a few weeks she is probably using a vape in there! I felt uncomfortable that we hadn’t been given an opportunity to discuss boundaries and rules about it but I still didn’t actually know if she was vaping.

Fast forward a month and she left her vape out in the bathroom. I used the opportunity to say that she must never handle it and then the children without washing her hands and that she must never use it anywhere but that room...

A few weeks later she was napping one of the babies in a sling in the kitchen when the baby I was napping woke ten mins early. I went to the kitchen door to signal to her that she should end the nap.
She was watching something on her phone with one hand and with the other, holding her vape pen around neck height, poised in the position that you would use it in and it was lit up (which I assume they only do when in use). When she saw me she absolutely crapped her pants and quickly tried to hide it behind her back in a panicked fashion.

When she came into the lounge I said firmly that she had been told clearly never to use it near the children. She lied to me and said she had just been holding it out of the way while she got her chapstick out of her pocket. She repeatedly denied it and told me that she would never ever do such a thing.

Basically I know she was doing it and lied about it but I felt a bit stuck in the situation and she half convinced me I was wrong so I just hoped she would never do it again.

This morning the same sort of scenario caused me to come to the door early and she quickly slid something off the table and behind herself. I didn’t see what it was but her behaviour makes it seem fairly obvious 🤦‍♀️

What on earth do I do? Do I have to actually catch her again to talk about it or act or what? Now I’m left feeling like I should end a nap early just to see it with my own eyes.

I don’t actually want to lose her but I absolutely cannot accept someone vaping around my babies. She has caused me enough reason to suspect that now I feel I have to do something for my babies sake.

She is showing a massive lack of respect for you by vaping when you've asked her not to and then lying about it. Coming from a nanny here get rid of her!

I'd get rid, but isnt a mother's help a couple of hours a day type thing not a 40 hour week? Are you using her as a nanny?

All these people who are so vociferous about vaping - what is so horrific about it? It isn't the same as smoking, the vape liquid isn't full of harmful chemicals.
Vaping has been around for many years now and no adverse effects have been found. (For those who will now tell me about deaths from vaping in the USA, there is strong suspicion that these peoplet were vaping illegal substances).
Vaping causes exhalation of vapour. Much the same as when a kettle boils. It isn't harmful. So many people seem to think of it as just a different form of smoking. It really isn't.

@Zanzibar55

All these people who are so vociferous about vaping - what is so horrific about it? It isn't the same as smoking, the vape liquid isn't full of harmful chemicals. Vaping has been around for many years now and no adverse effects have been found. (For those who will now tell me about deaths from vaping in the USA, there is strong suspicion that these peoplet were vaping illegal substances). Vaping causes exhalation of vapour. Much the same as when a kettle boils. It isn't harmful. So many people seem to think of it as just a different form of smoking. It really isn't.

You still can’t just vape wherever you want though. If your employer says no vaping you wait for your break or home time.

Op has said no vaping and the employee has ignored this.

@idontlikealdi

I'd get rid, but isnt a mother's help a couple of hours a day type thing not a 40 hour week? Are you using her as a nanny?

No, a Mother’s help vs a nanny is about how independently they work and how much of the lead they take.

A mother’s helper works alongside the mother who continues to run the routine and manage what gets done each day.
A nanny would be working mostly without me there and she would probably advise me on how to set routines and plan the babies day.

@PearlHeart3

Just playing devil's advocate here (and no I do not vape nor smoke...) But there are vape oils that are nicotine free. I'd first establish what she is vaping before making any decisions. Because if go in there sayung you don't want nicotine vapours around the baby... She might turn around and say her vape oils don't contain any. Would you be fine with her vaping around your babies then?

She is definitely an actual smoker, the cough was what gave her away at the start 🤦‍♀️😅

@TwinMum35

Thanks for your replies *@Mummybunny2000* *@Lawnpop and @lobsteroll*

Lawnpop, she is allowed to go in the bathroom whenever she wants and I’ve never questioned how much she goes there or how long she spends. She tends to go immediately before a nap and straight after. Naps till recently were 90mins.
You’re right, the lying itself is a big hit on the trust front.

I didn’t have any help till 4 months so I do know how hard it is and I do the mid afternoon to evening without help 👍 We don’t have any family support at all so there is really no respite but this x

But does she have actual breaks? Being allowed to go to the loo doesn't constitute a break.

@NuffSaidSam

Why are so sure you won't be able to replace her? It sounds like a lovely job....8 hours a day/5 days a week looking after twins/helping round the house.

Are you paying well etc.? How small is the place where you're living?! And is there nowhere bigger nearby?

It does seem a nice job doesn’t it! Might do it myself once these two go to school 😅

I know for sure as we live on an offshore island and it took us 4 months to find her. We interviewed the only 3 even remotely suitable people who came up in that time.

At six weeks we had a three day trial with one who it turned out wanted to play on her phone all day and had abysmal hygiene standards. When I left her to watch the babies nap for 30mins so I could wash my hair she immediately left the room to take a crap in our downstairs toilet while playing bubble witch loudly 😳😂 So that was her gone lol

The one we really wanted had worked as a nanny and governess abroad for 20 years and we were willing to pay her high rate. She chose another family with just one baby who offered even more to secure her.

It really is impossible here

She doesn’t have set break times because of the nature of the job.
There are certain parts of the day where she takes an informal break e.g: every day while I give the babies lunch she takes a break and eats etc. She’s around and might help if I was having a total disaster, but she’s usually using my microwave. kettle and condiments so I don’t think she’d rather go to her car. I don’t get any break. Usually the lunch I get is the spare bits that the babies don’t eat.
Her absolutely unlimited access to the bathroom for vaping is on top of these informal breaks.

You don’t get a break because they’re your babies and that’s what being a mum is like, especially to twins

@Zanzibar55

All these people who are so vociferous about vaping - what is so horrific about it? It isn't the same as smoking, the vape liquid isn't full of harmful chemicals. Vaping has been around for many years now and no adverse effects have been found. (For those who will now tell me about deaths from vaping in the USA, there is strong suspicion that these peoplet were vaping illegal substances). Vaping causes exhalation of vapour. Much the same as when a kettle boils. It isn't harmful. So many people seem to think of it as just a different form of smoking. It really isn't.

I don’t have to prove how harmful it is or isn’t to be able to restrict it in my own home surely?

I’m a science teacher and I’m of the opinion that the exhaled air after using a vape certainly contains more than a bit of water vapour.

I would be furious with the vaping in my bathroom to begin with. No chance! And then to find her vaping whilst holding my baby in a sling would have her out the door. I couldn’t trust her when she knew you didn’t want her vaping near the babies. Also, they’re not her babies so why on earth did she think that was ok?!

@Lawnpop

You don’t get a break because they’re your babies and that’s what being a mum is like, especially to twins

You’d be surprised. Literally everyone who hears that I have help assumes I’m chilling out on the beach or getting my hair done between feeds..

Would it be any easier to find a cleaner or housekeeper so that you could concentrate solely on babies and they could do all the house stuff? The first year with twins I was in survival mode, only the bare minimum got done. It does get easier though, there was a big improvement for me once they turned one. You mentioned showering, I used to put the babies in baby Bjorne bouncers and took them in the bathroom with me. They like the sound of the shower

Only people who don’t have twins could think that!

Sorry quoting fail, that was in response to people thinking you had loads of free time. But if you still don’t have free time even though you’re employing her for 40 hours then I don’t see what value she is adding

Getting a bit sidetracked replying but I have an update.

I talked to her about it this morning. I just said that it was playing on my mind as we had never really discussed it openly and I just asked curious questions that allowed me to restate my boundaries as part of the conversation. Here’s what I found out

• Yes she smokes actual cigarettes the rest of the time. (Changes into clean clothes before coming which seems genuine as I can’t smell it on her)
• She doesn’t need to do it more than before and after naps.
• She knows the bathroom is the only place allowed and not to take the babies in there.
• She refills her vape each morning and doesn’t even bring refills in the car as she knows I am concerned about leaks or breakages in the house. She brings just one vape with her.
• She knows that in my opinion even the exhaled air might be dangerous so it should never be near the babies.
• She says by pure coincidence she is going to try and quit from this weekend

@TwinMum35

She doesn’t have set break times because of the nature of the job. There are certain parts of the day where she takes an informal break e.g: every day while I give the babies lunch she takes a break and eats etc. She’s around and might help if I was having a total disaster, but she’s usually using my microwave. kettle and condiments so I don’t think she’d rather go to her car. I don’t get any break. Usually the lunch I get is the spare bits that the babies don’t eat. Her absolutely unlimited access to the bathroom for vaping is on top of these informal breaks.

She is legally entitled to a set amount of formal breaks each shift, not informal ones that involve helping you. Actual breaks where she isn't expected to do any work. Whether you, her employer, have a break or not is irrelevant.

And using the bathroom is in addition to having a break in all workplaces that conform to employment regulations.

@SaskiaRembrandt the Working Time Directive is not law where I live.

I'd have to ask her to leave. I'm fairly convinced that vaping is going to be big public health issue in the future. They are not a safe alternative to smoking even when they are nicotine free, God know what crap are in some of them.

Seriously? Get rid.

A friend of mine vapes and I can always tell when she’s vaping even when I can’t see her as I get a really bad pain in my chest. You don’t know what damage it does to your children yet - let alone the lying. You need to find someone else.

@TwinMum35

Getting a bit sidetracked replying but I have an update.

I talked to her about it this morning. I just said that it was playing on my mind as we had never really discussed it openly and I just asked curious questions that allowed me to restate my boundaries as part of the conversation. Here’s what I found out

• Yes she smokes actual cigarettes the rest of the time. (Changes into clean clothes before coming which seems genuine as I can’t smell it on her)
• She doesn’t need to do it more than before and after naps.
• She knows the bathroom is the only place allowed and not to take the babies in there.
• She refills her vape each morning and doesn’t even bring refills in the car as she knows I am concerned about leaks or breakages in the house. She brings just one vape with her.
• She knows that in my opinion even the exhaled air might be dangerous so it should never be near the babies.
• She says by pure coincidence she is going to try and quit from this weekend

But can you trust her after she went against your wishes? I wouldn’t.

@BeingATwatItsABingThing

No and it just isn’t going to get better is it 😬

I think she’s actually just a habitual liar as she will even lie about really small irrelevant things where I’d have to be stupid to not know it was a lie. 🤷‍♀️

This morning she has gorgeous evening eye makeup on. As me and boy twin came in the lounge I said “good morning V, your eyes look lovely today” and she immediately told me that she’s just practicing for a wedding in August and I just said “oh I thought you must just have nice plans tonight” and then she said no definitely not she isn’t going out... except she’s brought going out clothes and hung them on the bathroom door 🤔

She happily tells me all about various parties and plans most of the time so why lie? It’s just weird.

Anyway. As soon as I can get these babies napping in cribs again I think that will be it. They stopped doing it at 13 weeks and only now their night sleep is improving so it’s probably time to try 👍

Constant lying about even the smallest thing is worrying. Definitely get rid!