Right, now how do I weed out the untidy nannies?

[GloriaInEleusis]

Current nanny is leaving in March. So I'm starting to think of the nanny hunt, which will kick off in the new year. But, I am clearly crap at weeding out the ones who are in fact untidy (I'm being polite here).

So, what do you ask them?

I'm thinking I will require at least one year of live-in experience and just ask about their tidyness when I speak to references.

Ho hum... I hate interviewing. Seems I just did it. And here we go again...

Before interview turn house into complete pigsty - hideous.

Then during the course of the interview say "Our house always looks like this". The really tidy ones will flinch and go pale - voila!

no tips for me?

i think other than cbm's tip you will need to check their references. it is not something i would take the nanny's word for. however, i would ask detailed and specific questions of the referees re "tidiness" as it will mean different things to different people.

Why don't you write out a list of what the nanny would be expected to do each day, with 'tidying up' written in several places -e.g. "12.30 - 1.00 - lunch
1.00 - 1.15 children allowed 15 minutes watching DVD whilst kitchen is tidied up"

And ask her how she feels about the routine. She can say anything she likes about the day - but then say to her something along the lines of "I've put in here times for tidying up, but of course it is entirely up to you when you do it. However, I do expect that when I come home from work each day, the kitchen/house/bathroom (whatever you want!) has been cleared and tidied thoroughly. How do you feel about that?"

Also make it clear that this will be one of the specific duties in the contract - then you have a firm basis for gentle reminders/formal warnings, as appropriate!

God I'm glad I don't have a nanny any more!

Our current nanny is great with the children but I could not have her as a live in nanny - she is far too messy. However I am a really over the top tidy person and hate mess and I'm quite sure that other people wouldn't be so freaked as I am by the mess my nanny leaves lying around.

I think the only way you can be sure is to get someone who's lived in before and to address that issue specifically with her previous employer. There's no point asking the nanny - I'm quite sure my nanny wouldn't say that she's messier than a bunch of teenage boys. But she is.

eleusis, i think i said this before on the other thread about this nanny's untidiness, but i wouldn't go down the very very detailed list route. for one thing it won't address quality of execution, i.e. you could put "make sure kitchen is clean and tidy" but whether the execution of that would meet your standards is entirely another issue - unless your list ends up being pages and pages long

oh eleusis, I am just about to start interviewing too .

I don't know what other tips to give (you're probably more experienced interviewing nannies than me!) but I've been doing a lot of interviewing for roles at work and find asking quite open ended questions very revealing...e.g. if you ask her to run through the sort of typical day she had with her last employers and she doesn't mention tidying up then I'd probably move on to asking more specific tidying questions (and I agree re asking the references).

We are very untidy and I imagine it will pretty obvious from the house so in your shoes, I'd have your house immaculate and make it clear that this is the way you like it!

I think if you have an immaculate house, then that will put off untidy nannies when they come for interview.
Do you want someone great with the children, or great at housework, or settle for someone reasonable at both.

I think I want someone reasonable at both. Current nanny, by the way, is good with the childcare. I should give her credit where it's due. She is a nice a girl and we will miss her when she goes.

I think whatever you do you just have to be very, very clear about how important having a tidy home is, and demonstrate what you mean by tidy.

Otherwise it's not fair on your next nanny!

Our first nanny really thought she tidied up every day, but never seemed to see the dripped Weetabix gently setting like cement on the side of the high chair, or the bits of food underneath!

I would have a written mini-handbook of all the tidying/cleaning duties that you expect of the nanny, a very detailed one. So that basically she just has to do what's in the book. If she's tidy she won't mind, and you can have a chat about improvements to the system - ie that you are completely open-minded about discussions on ways to make your house tidier and cleaner with no extra effort.

And look at the nanny - is she clean, neat and tidy? How is her handbag? Writing? Etc. People are usually fairly transparent.

Good point Anna. Have a look at the nanny! I knew our nanny wasn't particularly tidy from her general appearance but it was not an issue because she does not live in and is very good with the children. Our first nanny was immaculately turned out all the time although she was happy to muck in and didn't freak out when she was covered in baby sick (unlike our second nanny - grrr) and she always tidied up properly.

mark my words, my girl, you will rue the day you write out a "detailed hand-book" - it will become the focus of conflict

will you have time to spend showing the nanny what you mean by clean and tidy?

I was thinking about this last night ele and agree with foxinsocks. How about asking for her "strengths" and "weaknesses" - as you would in a normal interview. You could say, "The role of my Nanny is primarily to look after my LOs. In carrying out such a role what strengths would you bring to this and what weaknesses?"

I've done the "schedule" thing with Nanny's at interview stage before and once they started they complained about all chores even though I stressed them over and over again in the interview. I agree with bossykate on this one.

It is tricky. If you make a written set of rules the focus of their duties then that set of rules often becomes the source of conflict. ("I've clearly stated that I wanted you to load and unload the dishwasher" "But you didn't tell me to put the clean stuff away. I thought it would be ok to leave it on the side" etc etc)

I don't think a handbook has to be about execution, I think it has to be about objectives.

So you say:

All children's clothing to be clean, ironed, folded/hung up and put away in their assigned drawers and cupboards every Friday evening.

Or

All kitchen equipment and crockery to be put away clean in the assigned cupboard before end of working day.

yes that's the point anna, it's not about execution, but that is where the problems are!

BK - no, I don't agree. I think that the objectives aren't reached. Now, maybe a nanny doesn't know how to go about reaching those objectives, but at least if they are clear you can't fight over a list/mini-handbook of them because it is clear whether they have been achieved or not.

You can have discussions about the most efficient way to execute, but it is not good management practice IMO (and this is a management issue) to lay down execution guidelines too closely or you end up not seeing the wood for the trees and creating conflict.

I don't think I need that handbook because that level of detail is in the contract.

However, I am adding a house rule about the cleanliness of her room (which the leasing agent has written up as a health and safty concern).

Really good tip about judging her from what she wears. I normally hire from abroad and take candidates with workin gholiday visas. But, this obviously means I don't meet them in person before they show up for work. I'm pondering hiring a British girl this time so maybe I will be able ti interview in person and get a feel for her tidiness... great tip there. Thanks, Anna.

The trouble I am having now with tidiness is definitely about execution and not about definition.

Gosh, it sounds as if your current nanny is just a slob .

Maybe you could add in a question to your super-comprehensive list about how fastidious she is?