CM Club - Petition about WFTC and the payment system - we've discussed this before.....

[bloodsuckingLOONEY]

Just found this petition - it's about getting childminders paid direct rather than via parents due to all the cheating that goes on etc.

I've just signed it

what cheating goes on?

A LOT of childminders have had their reg number used and they've never heard of the parent.....others have had them sign up to just leave straight away and then ages later, childminder gets letter about the parent who's basically been claiming money for services NOT used.

People sign up with you attend for a few weeks then leave use unregistered care & caryy on claiming

TCO only check a small percentage of childminders

I have lost thousands to this sort of fraud

We've quite often talked about how the childminder should be responsible for informing the tax people when someone stops using their care to prevent this going on.

Hi Katy....so you'll be signing then?

How you feeling today? Better I hope.

oh god that is awful

i find it really wired system, when dd was young (now 10) nursery had to sign to say how much i was paying etc...

now they just take my word for it, each year i phone up to say how much dd2 nursery costs have gone up... and i am shocked that they dont check

I mean a phone call to say last day attended would take 2 mins (it could even be an automated service)

Bit better thanks - i don't think I will work tomorrow though - I am exhausted

Yes it is a crazy system - just as crazy as OFSTED but don't get me started on that!

Katy - yes, rest tomorrow and start again when you're back to normal - let your staff do the work!

Speaking of being tired, I'm exhausted today not helped by the fact ds was up at 5.30! I've been saying I'm off to bed for the past hour, I really should go!!!

Night x

I have also signed it, I did have this type of fraud once with a parent. IR sent me a form confirming that I was minding this child when in fact I had sacked her for non payment in the April of the previous year! I had a NCMA receipt book of the payments she had made (not many of them either)and had noted down when the child came as we did not have registers then.

Teo weeks later two officials came to take a statement from myself and they assured me she would be taken to court which she was as her name was in the court list of the local paper!

At least if we were paid direct we could actually get paid and not go for weeks with out money while they squander it. It is ours after all for our business. The only difficulty is when the child changes their hours of minding but I suppose you could email the IR on this with a PIn number so they could identify you as being their childminder.

just signed.

Actually quite worried about the petition guys
"Working Tax Family Credit is paid to families to help pay towards childcare costs but not all of the money they are given for that purpose is actually used towards childcare costs, resulting in many registered childminders being left unpaid and having to reclaim money owed through the Small Claims Court, despite the non-payment being fraud of the Benefits system. Any money paid to a family for childcare costs should be paid directly to the childminder to prevent this from happening."

It isn't phrased very well & if it's a fraudulant claim we have not right to the money - or am I reading it worng as it's monday morning?

sorry Katy, it's nothing to do with me, just came across it - may not be worded the best but not my place to do anything about it.

Done

It is a complicated issue

Say you get the TC paid to you then the TCO decide it wasn't due, do they claim it back off you? or of the parent?

There is a lot of cheating that goes on - fraud that is, call it stealing because that is what it it. But it is stealing from the government.

I'm not sure it is my thing or how I see the problem so I prob won't sign

Although I do think it is an issue that needs addressing

Isn't it on the NCMA agenda this year?

No idea about NCMA. I signed because it was the only related thing there and at least it may mean having the whole thing looked at

Not a childminder myself but I know my boss says her nursery encounters the same thing - people register, use them for a month and then leave.

I think the payments should either go direct but can forsee problems if an overpayment occurs - not from overpaying the child care provider but if the parent has a change in circumstances and doesnt notify them quick enough. At the moment overpayments are paid back by the parent either by reducing or stopping the credit altogether. Obviously this wouldnt work if the money went straight to the childcare provider.

What about vouchers - that way parent can only spend them on childcare and nothing else. I'm sure a scheme could be set up similar to the ones employers offer employees but without the tax saving. Would also stop the unregistered childminders as they couldnt cash the vouchers and should make things easier on the childcare provider with regards to getting paid and their accounts etc.

I agree that the system is flawed but I'm sorry I have to say I strongly disagree that childminders should be paid direct.

At the moment parents pay me on the agreed date and then claim it back from tax credits. It is the parent who is responsible for paying me regardless of how they will be acquiring the funds to pay me. Its the parent I chase for late payments and its the parent who pays a late payment fee if their payment is late. How much tax credits, if any, the parent is entitled to is none of my business - its between the tax credits people and the parent.

If tax credits people were to pay me direct it is highly unlikely they would pay in advance and I would have to wait to be paid in arrears. Who knows what sort of mistakes they might make. If there is a problem with my being paid the wrong amount or not having been paid at all I will have to spend ages on the phone to get it sorted.The parent will have a reasonable excuse not to pay as they can't get the funds from the tax office and will say they can't afford to pay me and I will have to wait til the tax credits people sort it out. What about parents who use more than one childcare provider, the parent would need to control how much to pay which provider. What about when the parent's financial circumstances change (eg change of job, promotion) changing their entitlement to credits? Who will I pursue for non-payment if the parent says the tax credits people owe me and the tax credits people say otherwise? What right to I have to be told how much a parent is entitled to? Too many potential problems for the childminder

JMHO