My childminder charged me full price during COVID

[wirldsgonemad]

So April and May she didn't have my little girl at all, as per lockdown rules. She started taking her back in June. I worked full time from home the entire lockdown, we were busier than normal. I was demented trying to keep my 3 yr old entertained whilst also going on one teams call after another, phone calls emails, all needing urgent responses. DH worked throughout as he's a key worker so it was just me and my daughter. The childminder has been self employed for well over 3 years. I don't understand why she's charged me full price, I did pay but now I'm wondering if I should ask for the money back. I paid at the time because I was taking a full wage and felt really bad for those whose wages were affected by COVID. At the time self employed people couldn't make a claim until June and you worry about people not being able to pay mortgages and bills. In recent weeks I've felt really paused off because she's talked about how she really enjoyed lockdown and her family had loads of quality time together. Whilst I was tearing my hair out, leaving my poor 3 yr old to watch CBeebies whilst I neglected her and sat on teams calls and emails for most of the day. I've written out emails to send, but I can't get the tone right because I'm actually really upset that I've paid full price when she could easily claim 80% from the government. What would you do? Child minders opinions welcome

RainyOutside - there's no suggestion that there is a lack of honesty and integrity. The OP doesn't know if the childminder had any additional financial support.

The time to raise this was in March really, but you can always try talking to her.

On the comment about her enjoying lockdown - I hated it, but any comments I made to my minding parents, or friends were always positive. There was enough bad news going around without me adding to it.

@SMaCM
I agree I hated many aspects of lockdown but am naturally optimistic and up beat so despite my husband not earning anything....self employed but intelligible due to taking best part of year caring for me through cancer then another 6 months with heart attack and me not getting any...cancer. I didnt moan to anyone but said I didn't mind lock down....i was working but no school runs, the sun was shining, my family and friends were safe although I couldn't see them including my disabled sister who was isolating since Christmas....had been ill just recovered for lockdown, or my son and grandaughter, missing my 30th anniversary celebrations and 21st parties weddings etc like most of us...lockdown was pants but we all survived it unlike many so it was good. We're now having to catch up on mortgages and other bills but I was blessed with families who couldn't come but were lovely and said we will pay you were earning you go above and beyond etc. One family didnt they assumed becouse ive been self employed for years I would get money.
I dont get why people come out with dishonesty statements i guess they judge by what they would do in thoes circumstances.

Self embedded people didn't get any money from grants until June or later. You can ask but she doesn't have to give you it back.

I gave notice to my childminder in the end - she was expecting full fees and I was furloughed - due to the furlough cap I lost half my wages.

I think you should have said something at the time - no point letting her comments get to you now as you have zero chance of getting any money back. I'm pretty sure she would have claimed every grant going - every self employed person I know did. I didn't get an invoice once in 4 years from my childminder so who knows if she was declaring what I paid her for all those years but you reap what you sow

@ivfbeenbusy.
Its wrong to assume every self employed person claimed many of us were not entitled I know 6 childminders well and only 2 got anything vagley helpful. Similarly why suggest your childminder may not have paid tax on her income? There has been another big fall in childcare with many childminders and nurseries closing becouse this has tipped them right over the edge after loosing money through funding.

@jannier

I appreciate not every self employed COULD claim but those that could all did

As for the tax point - when I asked about signing Up to the tax free account her reason for refusing was "I don't want the HMRC to know my business"! 🤔

"I appreciate not every self employed COULD claim but those that could all did "

You are wrong. Not everyone felt they needed to claim and I've seen some saying that they would not claim because they could manage on what their partners were earning.

Others, of course, needed to claim and there is nothing wrong with them doing so.

I'm a childminder and during lockdown, and even since I've been back at work, I lost 5 families as a result of Covid. I'm the main breadwinner in my family- my husband can't work due to health reasons. 4 families stopped paying immediately, and 2 oother families still owe me money which I have little chance of getting. Even though I started work again in June, a further 2 families didn't pay until their child had returned to my care- so expected me to keep spaces open for nothing. They have both since left.
Luckily I had 4 amazing families who paid me voluntarily all through lockdown. We were not allowed to charge parents if we were closed- no service,no charge- we could only accept voluntary payments. If the voluntary payments hadn't been made I would have lost my home.
The self employed grant was paid to cover any loss caused by the Covid situation. However, the 80% was based on average profits over the last 3 years. After allowable expenses every month, my income can sometimes be reduced by two thirds, depending on what I've had to pay out for. So yes the grant was welcome, but it covered 3 month periods, so in my case it didn't even cover a third of what I'd lost.
Even if I hadn't received voluntary payments, I would not have expected families to pay. My service was not available,and, although it wasn't my fault I couldn't open so why should I lose money, neither was it the parents so why should they have to pay?

@looselegs you say after allowable expenses your income can sometimes be reduced by two thirds so on that basis if income is £3000 per month you only pay tax on £1000 due to allowable expenses. What are those allowable expenses that in a normal year allow you to pay less tax but have such a negative effect on your income from the self employed Covid payments? If it's things like nappies, food, art supplies, days out etc then you wouldn't have incurred those costs when closed so it shouldn't make any difference to your income. If it's other benefits which someone on PAYE has no ability to benefit from then personally I think those self employed have to take the rough with the smooth and accept that they benefit massively in some ways but that won't always be the case. It was the same for all those people operating as a company drawing a very small salary and profits paid as dividends to minimise tax - you can't have it all ways.

I offered to pay our CM a retainer and she said no need, she would be claiming the grant.

I think your CM is taking the piss tbh.

My childminder ( who runs a breakfast club) did not charge me for the days we didn’t use. I think given you’ve paid in full for a service you haven’t received she should have the common sense and good grace to shut up about the lovely lockdown she’s had. It doesn’t take a genius to work out the hard time people had juggling WFH and childcare.

It was silly to pay her. I didn’t pay my hairdresser or nail person why pay for a service you didn’t use .

@looselegs chase the two families for the money. Even if you get them to agree to pay you off £5 per month for years it is better than ignoring the debt.

@TheTeenageYears everyone who salaried always states this about people who work for themselves.

What you don't realise is that when you are dealing with people you have to buy supplies and pay for subscriptions in advance you can't wait until you have the cash.

@Audreyhelp your hairdresser and nail person aren't responsible for caring for a precious family member.

I think the childminders that took the money from their clients (who were trying to do the right thing) and then kept quiet once they were able to claim government assistance are cheeky fuckers.

Redmaurader. No the childminder is a business though the same as anyone else .
Private schools and nursery got a reduction on fees why are childminders different .?

@TheTeenageYears.
4 new car seats...£150 each,
New single buggy
Quad buggy..£1400
High chairs
Course fees just under £1500
Subscription
Membership to zoo
Membership to play centre
Insurance
Daily expenses
Training first aid £100, other cpd £300
All reduce you income over the year the grant was paid on an average of the last 3 years so if your average income was badly effected in any of the 3 years what they paid would be way less than normal earning but you cant claim extra....so being ill, holding a space for a sibling, having children leave and not pay, not being able to fill a space, taking funding (3 funded children can cut pay by a third), being nice and letting parents off becouse they are in hospital etc all reduce average over 3 years.

Then the big one to get the grant you have to continue in business for at least a year that means all the parents made redundant no longer needing childcare, the ones who now work from home, the individuals circumstances...all impact on being able to continue for a year.....if you've lost children now would you take the risk of being out of work and all that entails along with repaying the government? For many it was a no.

@Audreyhelp.....wow you have a hairdresser who only has 3 clients lucky you....most childminders have a few clients that they work with for years with the responsibility of educating and safegaurding thos children in a loving caring environment yet the number of people on here who think they are being devious and underhand getting double pay etc amazes me....I wonder how you all think the double pay will be hidden to Hmrc....many of whom still had to pay last year's tax whilst in lock down on reduced income by the way.

Jannier, my hairdresser lost her clients the same way the childminder did . No income it amounts to the same . Childminders are a business .

@Audreyhelp
My point was a childminder works with a few clients for what maybe 11 years or more a hairdresser has hundreds. A hairdresser fees for each of thoes clients is equivalent to a days rate for a childminder. So what is the relavence of comparing paying one to the other. I feel very sorry for all the self employed. Unfortunately most of the employed think were tax fiddling and money grabbing

I have had my hairdresser for twenty years . What I was saying was the op didn’t use the childminder so why should she pay for a childminder that she didn’t use .
It wasn’t an argument about how much self employed get .

Our little boy goes to a childminder and we didn't have to pay during lockdown so that's from March-June xxx

@Audreyhelp
I guess it depends how much you value your childminder and if you want your children to have consistency in these terrible times. The reality is without some families choosing to pay many wont have childcare. A look at the selling pages for secondhand equipment tells you how many childminders and nurseries have now gone under.

Yes but this child was leaving anyway. Lots of businesses are going under not just childminders . That’s what the self employment grant helped with to stop that.
In this part of the country new nurseries are popping up everywhere .

But every employed on furlough got it no matter how long they worked loads of self employed didn't and people on here are just saying yes they did and are just pocketing extra that is not the truth. Its the age old self employed are scamming the system havd time off whenever they want rubbish when actually stats show self employed work longer hours have less holidays and sick and lower pay. Most of the posts on here are condemning this childminder with no evidence.

Yes my husband was one that only had just gone self employed so we got nothing . You can’t expect people to pay him for work he didn’t do though .

This childminder did get it so she was better off as no crafts food electric etc to supply and she got the grant so was a bit greedy to take the ladies money .