My childminder charged me full price during COVID

[wirldsgonemad]

So April and May she didn't have my little girl at all, as per lockdown rules. She started taking her back in June. I worked full time from home the entire lockdown, we were busier than normal. I was demented trying to keep my 3 yr old entertained whilst also going on one teams call after another, phone calls emails, all needing urgent responses. DH worked throughout as he's a key worker so it was just me and my daughter. The childminder has been self employed for well over 3 years. I don't understand why she's charged me full price, I did pay but now I'm wondering if I should ask for the money back. I paid at the time because I was taking a full wage and felt really bad for those whose wages were affected by COVID. At the time self employed people couldn't make a claim until June and you worry about people not being able to pay mortgages and bills. In recent weeks I've felt really paused off because she's talked about how she really enjoyed lockdown and her family had loads of quality time together. Whilst I was tearing my hair out, leaving my poor 3 yr old to watch CBeebies whilst I neglected her and sat on teams calls and emails for most of the day. I've written out emails to send, but I can't get the tone right because I'm actually really upset that I've paid full price when she could easily claim 80% from the government. What would you do? Child minders opinions welcome

Oh my goodness just realised this isn't an Aibu. Sorry, I'm so tired. I would say you are entirely reasonable to ask for it to be refunded.

I paid my childminder in full because mine and my husband’s wages were unaffected by Covid. We also made huge savings in other areas: hardly filled the car with fuel, no days out, meals out, kids activities etc. It just felt the right thing to do.

Good for her enjoying the extra time with the family. I found Covid stressful especially trying to work and home-school my children at the same time. However I did enjoy the extra time as a family, and I will always remember how special it felt to have time together. Maybe your childminder shouldn’t have expressed her enjoyment of the time, however it’s not the worst thing to say.

The difficulty here is that it's not obvious how much money she received from the government scheme. It's very unlikely she got 80% of her earnings, but it is possible she got something, in which case I can understand your anger - it was morally reprehensible of her to accept the full amount from you and make a profit out of the situation. However, if she didn't receive any money from the government (which is also possible - many self employed people fell through the cracks of the scheme) then obviously she had bills to pay.

Overall I would probably leave it if you rate her highly as a childminder.

She may not have got anything from the government (I didn't). She may have said positive things about her time in lockdown, because she didn't want to add to the doom and gloom. Your payment meant that neither of you lost out financially during lockdown, which is great. Maybe she charged initially thinking it was just going to be a few weeks. I would leave it now.

For clarity - my parents didn't pay full fees. They voluntarily paid what they could afford. A couple gleefully told me how much extra money they had and what they were spending it on, even though they knew we had no help.

I might be totally wrong, but as your husband is a key worker, you childminder could have looked after your daughter during lockdown.

I'm a key worker, husband is not, but his salary is more than mine. My childminder looked after both my school age daughter and the younger one and within the rules because I am a key worker. There was a query to begin with, but she checked the rules carefully - she could only have children from 1 family. Meant she was paid throughout and I could keep working safely.

So, if she refused to take your daughter, I can see it might be a bit cheeky to charge full price, but if she was open for your daughter, then reasonable if you chose not to send her.

My daughter started at a school nursery in September so she no longer looks after her. I just expected her to say, I've claimed the furlough grant so you don't have to pay for July and August but she didn't.

The grant is to compensate for business losses so she was entitled to ask you for payment for July & August if she was looking after your daughter. I’m a childminder and didn’t charge any of my parents but that was because I didn’t want to be put under pressure to reopen before I was ready and I was lucky enough that my DH was still working. I know of some people who charged varying amounts and i believe there was some suggestion that childcare facilities who charged during lockdown should pay it back but I didn’t look into it to be honest. It’s an awkward situation but I’m not sure where you both stand legally to be honest. I have lost over 50% of my business and it’s not picking up at all & i was full before lockdown. Obviously I don’t know if your CM is in a similar situation but would she even be able to pay you back?

@Iliketeaagain

I might be totally wrong, but as your husband is a key worker, you childminder could have looked after your daughter during lockdown.

I'm a key worker, husband is not, but his salary is more than mine. My childminder looked after both my school age daughter and the younger one and within the rules because I am a key worker. There was a query to begin with, but she checked the rules carefully - she could only have children from 1 family. Meant she was paid throughout and I could keep working safely.

So, if she refused to take your daughter, I can see it might be a bit cheeky to charge full price, but if she was open for your daughter, then reasonable if you chose not to send her.

The childminder said she would only look after a child if both parents were keyworkers, she didn't watch any children during lockdown.

But OP maybe that's because she didn't claim it rather than because she isn't admitting it?

Even though I won't be using her in the future, I know I will be secretly seething for months about this. I feel like when I see her, I won't be as warm to her. It's such a shame to ruin a friendship over a small amount of money -£400. And she's never tried to discuss it. I think less of her because she seems grabby, she has acted grabby in the past, I should have been more on the ball. Lesson learnt.

I believe at one point, both parents had to be keyworkers for you to be able to access a childcare place. This did change but I can’t remember when it was from.

Did she claim the grant though? Maybe she wasn’t eligible. I’m self employed (limited company) and qualified for nothing whatsoever.

@Alexandernevermind

I think you were generous to pay in full in the first place, particularly before knowing what government help was available. However there is no point being the martyr at the time and then having sour grapes about it now.

This.

You offered her the money because you felt it right to do so. Her circumstances haven't changed. Your feelings about them have.

Why should she have had a miserable lockdown just because you did?

I enjoyed lockdown (I was furloughed) - quality family time, a chance to really rest, no demands on my time.... doesn't mean it wasn't a struggle financially. I've been back at work since June and I'm still feeling the financial effects now.

Whether it was right of her to charge you or not I can't say but you paid. To ask for a refund because she told you she had a nice time is a bit petty...

And I would have sent my daughter if she was open, like I said, the neglect was very waring. The sheer guilt day after day, I felt like I was failing at work and failing at parenting and the Childminder had a lovely time on full pay and at no point discussed me paying a lesser amount. I don't think the bad feeling will go for me now unless she offered the money back or a fair explanation. I just don't know whether I should ask now.

I don't think you can ask now.

I am not in the UK so can't advise about entitlements but you should have addressed it at the time.

I wonder if some of your frustration is linked with how difficult it was for you to work with your DD there & no support. That is tough, I wfh with children too, but not sure what you'll achieve bringing it up with her now.

What you've done at the moment is ensure that neither of you were worse off, which is very commendable. What you'd like to do is be better off due to COVID and your childminder (potentially) be worse off. You could ask for some of your money back, but think about the possible consequences. She hasn't tried to rob you, or deceive you. The only thing you seem to be concerned about is that she didn't complain about being in lockdown. There are many reasons why she may not have received any government support, but you will never know whether she did or not.

My daughters nursery closed and we were only asked to pay 10% of the monthly fees.

The grant was only paid at 80% of the average profit for 3 years....thats not 80% of what parents pay so factors like illness, empty spaces, parents not paying, investment in new equipment, replacing broken equipment etc would all reduce income. Many childminders had periods where income was less than minimum wage. They also feared that if parents did not come back due to redundancy and long term managing without they would have to leave childminding and then repay the grant...it was a condition that you would stay in business in the year to come as lots have lost customers and have now had to leave childminding that was a valid fear. I know of childminder who used to employ assistants with 6 full time spaces filled who now have 2 days work with one child and no assistant.
You can't assume she got the grant, the best thing is to ask if shes now in a position to refund you say 50% over the next 4 months.

@wirldsgonemad....
We were not allowed to look after children if there was a parent working from home....becouse that was the safest place for your child and everyone else....thats was government guidence and to break it would mean working uninsured and against Ofsted rules....it was not her choice.
You say she always seemed graby .....what do you mean? Most people work to earn a wage and expect to be paid for it including any overtime. Childminders who dont charge typically get walked over by parents coming later and later for example so most dont let that start.

This was part of the reason I cancelled my childcare. I was paying but really struggling trying to carry on working. I’m self employed too and if I don’t work I don’t get paid. I paid up initially thinking it was fair and then the government announced the help for self employed and I started to question why I was paying when my childminder could claim.

I think it’ll be hard to bring it up now given that so much time has passed but you could raise the subject by asking what will happen regarding fees should she have to close or isolate in the future. It’s a really difficult time for everyone but struggling to meet deadlines while having a three year old at home on top of paying for childcare you haven’t got is a ridiculous situation and she must see that?!

@Iliketeaagain.
Initial guidence was that 1 parent had to be a key worker if the other parent was working from home the child stayed home unless it was not safe to do so. If the other parent worked out of the home they could come....but the op like most families was working from home.

I didn't charge when I was closed and I claimed the self employment grant. I am of the opinion that if my service is available then I charge. If for any reason my service is unavailable then I can't charge. Downside of self employment.

You should have had this conversation with her back in March OP! If you bring it up now, it will cause ill feeling and probably end the working relationship between you both.

I paid my CM what I usually pay in term time. DH and I were both still bringing in our same wages but did have a reduced workload. Morally, it felt like the right thing to do. But I spoke with my CM constantly throughout the summer and we spoke about what we would pay when etc. To be fair, she has under charged us a few times in recognition of our generosity.

I dont think anyone should come out of covid with more than they would normally earn. I dont get the idea of you enjoyed lockdown I hated it so ill make you suffer financially to get my own back. Some people worked caring for much younger and multiple children perhaps they should resebt you for only having 1 3 year old. The grass is always greener look forward not back and you will be happier.

FWIW op I agree with you and it wouldn’t be about the money for me so much as the fact that for someone who has care for my child, I need a culture of honesty and integrity and respect.