Childminder versus nursery

[zaffa]

Hi! My daughter was due to start with a childminder this week but she has told me today that her setting isn't right for DD (10 months). She has some real separation anxiety that is most likely due to not seeing anyone for lockdown.... she settles with the childminder but only if held which obviously isn't practical at all as she has a few babies of similar age to care for (just over one) and DD sobs when put down which is causing upset to all of them.

The childminder is very new though (just opened) so I'm not sure if the best course of action here is to find a more experienced childminder or to try a nursery? I need to use the tax free childcare so a nanny won't work for us and I can't give up work as I'm now the main earner and DH can't give up work as we still need his wage. My PIL already have her two days a week and my parents live too far away to help.

She is also very clingy with MiL when there but they are just devoted to her so that makes it much easier and she is slowly settling with them. I can't ask them to have her all four days a week as that just isn't fair on them when they are already being so generous with their time and it is hard work to care for her when she is so very hands on.

FWIW I can put her down and leave her to play when she is at home with me and I can even leave the room to get something from another and she is fine. She suffered terribly with CMPA as a baby but it was undiagnosed so she was held a lot as lying down made it much worse (and she had reflux).

So here we are - what do you think would suit her better? A more experienced childminder or a nursery with more staff? Any suggestions so gratefully received.

Thanks!

Hard to know what's best for your child but I can say my very very very very attached boy went to nursery and thrived. Cried every day at drop off for a long time though. I knew he was ok after though as they'd send me photos of him playing 10 mins after I'd left him. I think a lot of his success was due to staff in his room as they would carry him around when they could/ rock him to sleep on their chests if he wouldn't sleep in his cot etc etc. Hes 2 now, loves it, runs in the door and I really think he's benefitted from all the other kids.

Hi, a childminder can only care for 1 x under 1 so at 10 months old your child would always be the youngest until they are a year old and then the childminder will be able to have another under 1so long as they had the space. I am childminder and some babies settle really easily others take their time. As much as I love babies and take them from 3 months sadly I can’t hold them constantly all day long as it’s unfair on the other children I care for , the other children don’t get as much attention, you can’t do the normal activities and constant crying does affect them too. Saying that she is at the ripe age for separation anxiety and clinginess is normal. I have only once given notice to a family their child cried non stop from drop off to collection 8-6 pm. 4 days a week. Nothing I did helped, after 5 months I had lost 1 stone in weight due to stress and dreaded work. Final straw was after trying to speak to dad how we could work together to help settle, be happy I was I formed to shut the F up , I pay you to care for him so put and shut up I don’t care if he screams, hits, bites you. Notice was served with in 30 minutes.!

I think a nursery might be better. There will be more staff in the baby room and will be able to hold and comfort your daughter when she needs it.
The staff in baby rooms really are so used to help settling in.

I actually found nursery a good option. Baby rooms will have one worker to 3 babies and usually there’s a floating member of staff who can help if they need it. I think the routines are quite good too - kids love routine and there’s generally more of this at nursery than a childminder.

Thanks all - lots to think about. I've got a meeting lined up with a childminder tomorrow who is really experienced with problems like my baby has and also a couple of highly recommended nurseries to call so I'll be on that tomorrow! Fingers crossed - I just want her to be happy and settled.

My DD went to nursery from 9 months and they were fantastic with her. There were always enough staff to carry her around when needed, but she also got a lot from the fact that there were lots of other babies of the same age to interact with.

We chose a nursery over childminder predominantly for the reliability factor, they were open 51 weeks a year and if one of the workers was ill they had backups to cover, they never closed for snow or anything like that.

My very clingy baby went to a nursery at 1 yr old. I used to carry him so much, he was always on me. He's 2 now and doing great at nursery. They are so kind to him, and always have been. He was very sad at drop offs for a while and that was hard for him, but I honestly think there is no harm done, and he is so happy there during the day. I'm not saying a nursery is definitely right for you, but for my clingy baby it has worked out very well. Just make sure you choose a good one!

It can sometimes come as a bit of a shock to a new childminder when they look after the first little one who is used to being held a lot. A more experienced childminder will know how to cope.

DS started nursery full time when he was just short of 8 months old and finances dictated I go back to work. He had a fantastic key worker who he absolutely adored and she definitely did the vast majority of his care. The other staff in his room were also lovely though and he never once cried being dropped off, despite being really clingy to me and his dad prior to that. He’s almost two now and has moved up a room, but absolutely loves going now and claps and squeals in the car on the way there. I had such massive guilt when I first put him into nursery, but it all worked out great and I’m so glad I did now.

Before deciding on our nursery, we met 4 different childminders and visited two other nurseries and knew straight away that the nursery we ended up choosing would be the best fit for DS. I’m sure there are brilliant childminders out there, but of the ones we met I very much got the impression that DS would just be going ‘along for the ride’ with whatever the other children were doing each day (inevitably I guess, due to age range) whereas at nursery all the activities in his room were tailored to his age and development stage which has been fantastic for him.

So my choices get harder - I have found a really lovely childminder who I have explained the situation to and understands that DD may well need to be held a lot or worn in a carrier. She has two others there all day and no school children but all the children are around the same age (DD is the youngest at almost 11 months) so activities will be age appropriate.
The nursery on the other hand have said that they could accommodate her needs and would be able to comfort her as much as they can and would get her into a routine of sleeping in a cot (she sleeps in our bed now) and it would be reliable and no real concerns about one person being off sick etc or over holidays.

I'm leaning towards the childminder but she is also just setting up (but is a reception teacher and hasn't returned after her mat leave) one of the children is her son who is a year old. I do think the home environment would suit her better but I worry that it's too much to have such a clingy baby and I also worry that if I pick wrong I will mess up her attachment and she will think o just leave her with anyone and I will do more damage.

To all the people saying childminder is better - is that because it's one person all the time and it's in their home?

And to say, from what has been described to me she either wails inconsolably when put down or grumbles and has to be constantly reassured when held. It's not just a ten minute fuss and then she settles

@zaffa my DD went to nursery from 9 months to reception age, she's 6 years old and still talks about her keyworker and the friends she made there.

I however never used a childminder so can't compare the 2.

When I was picking I went based on my instinct on seeing the other kids, the nursery we chose, the kids were laughing, happy, a little bit messy some of them and looked like they'd had a really good time. The staff were relaxed looking and we were encouraged to just pop along and ask at reception for a tour, we didn't have to book it so didn't feel like it was staged. Obviously more difficult now because of Covid.

Hi, while making the decision I would also look at both the childminders and nursery settling polices , I offer 2 x 2 hour settling sessions for the child and a 4 week settling period where I can give notice with immediate affect and say it’s not working for me and the parents have the same right. After this four week period we go straight into a 4 week notice period where the parents have to pay the notice period fees if they then decide to leave. As a side note as a childminder I will not carry a child in a carrier as it’s unpractical especially if I have other children of similar age and they need my attention as much as your little one.

I would always opt for an experienced and locally recommended childminder over nursery for any child under 3 years old. From 3 upwards a half day in pre-school is great, most childminders will be able to facilitate this with drop-offs and pick-ups.

Team CM here. They can build up a far closer relationship with each child, and the ratios are the same, so you won't get more staff with a nursery, but are less likely to get personal and individualised treatment. Also as it's in a home environment it's more familiar to them.

Try to get one that doesn't do school runs though (they do exist - my CM is one) as that can be very disruptive and boring for them.

My clingy children have had no trouble adjusting.

Thanks everyone for your views. @Thespottytortoise the CM I met yesterday doesn't do school runs so although she will have the maximum number of children under 5 if DD joins, she doesn't have to get them out for school runs twice per day.
I am also leaning towards the CM so far.

@Apple40 thanks for your views, it's interesting to hear from a childminder. How would you comfort and settle a baby that didn't yet feel safe in your setting? Do they all settle after just the two hour long settling in sessions? I can imagine it is difficult having to settle a new baby when you have children there already - do you think a childminder is not suited to anxious babies or those suffering badly with separation anxiety because they don't have time to focus on one child like that? Would it be better to go down a nursery route then?

All babies are different I have had some that settle straight away others that take there time which can be weeks/ months. I do find the younger the baby the quicker they settle. The children who have take there time to settle with me I would say it’s never an actually cry they do it’s more an angry scream all red face and no tears what so ever.Lockdown has meant a lot of babies now needing childcare have never been left and some not see other people besides mum and dad. So new situation is scary for them. The new baby needs to learn to adapt to their new routine and this includes not being picked up the minute they start to cry as the childcare provider if that’s a childminder or nursery worker could be attending to another child. I try to encourage the baby to gradually not need to be held or sat on me permanently, so when not crying they are sat beside me and I play and read books with them etc. I have also had some that like to be sat in the pushchair, car seat , toddler seat Etc just watching as this was where they felt secure they would then come and go as they please so sitting in them to feel secure and then coming back out to play again in a few minutes. But I also need the parents on board and honest with me if a child is permanently held at home, never put down then I am fighting a losing battle and the child will never settle because it’s used to being held 24 hours a day so expects that in childcare too.

Thanks @Apple40. To be honest that is what I was expecting to happen with DD but as it was only her first session with the childminder (settling in sessions didn't go well in that quite a lot were cancelled (including the final two weeks) and prior to that she had only had two where she was left alone with the childminder, the first for 10 mins and on the second (intended to be half an hour) I was asked to collect her after 15 mins as she was upsetting the other baby there because she wouldn't settle. The CM asked for them to be short as she was expecting DD to be unsettled without me (during a settling in session that I was present for I left the room to put a cup down and she immediately got upset)

The first proper session she attended this past week I had reduced from the full day down to two and a half hours and she made it two hours before I got a call, but the CM again said it was distressing for the other babies to hear her upset and of course the CM couldn't hold her the entire time. She was fine in the buggy when they went out for a walk but reacted badly once they got back home.

I can only assume from that that either her anxiety is too extreme for one person to handle and so she will need more than one person there to support whoever is looking after her or I suppose that the CM is too inexperienced to know how to deal with the situation (she has only just opened).

I don't know what to do next - I understand she can't be held all day because I certainly don't do that - she has a lot of floor play at home and I leave her (safely) for short periods in the play room while I make a bottle or drink or prepare lunch. I leave her in her cot bed with toys while I shower but she does co sleep and also co sleeps for naps quite often. I put her down on our bed next to me and she falls asleep and sometimes I chill out and stay with her and sometimes I leave and keep an eye on her so stay upstairs to get on with things. I do use a carrier a lot when she was little because she had terrible tummy pains and reflux and liked to be upright (it turns out she had an undiagnosed CMPA for six months)

She is however similar at her GP when she spends time there and gets upset and likes to be held and cries (I have actually heard it and would call it more whingeing - she will play a bit on their laps or dance to music and then grumble a bit) but they are working on getting her down onto the floor. She is just really anxious away from me and I feel terrible that this has happened because I want her to feel safe and happy and already I have introduced her to one person, left her there and now that person has disappeared. If I choose wrong again I will just make it all worse but I have no choice but to return to work unfortunately.

What would you do if the child didn't settle after a few hours? Is that usually indicative that they won't settle?

DD was definitely up the in the nominations for clingiest baby, no way could I leave her in her cot to shower.

She went to a CM at 13 months and didn't really settle in in the 2 months she was there (2 days week). The CM did actually carry her a lot and wore her in a carrier on her back so she could get on without upsetting DD which I really appreciated because that what I used to do but it just didn't click. She still clams up if wee bump into the CM

Then Covid happened so she stopped going and recently we started her in a nursery we viewed but she was too young for before and we didn't think she was ready for that kind of environment and she is thriving and settled in about 6 weeks (stated at 22 months).

I guess her being older helps a lot but also I think the CM just wasn't a good fit, I didn't have a lot of CMs to choose from at the time and the nursery has more kids to make friends with (DD has just made a "best friend" she's not yet 2 but she's been trying to make friends all through lock down, my child is weirdly sociable not from me). I never was called to collect DD early from the CM, I think she was a bit quietly miserable but the first day of nursery I got a call to come and get her 30 mins after she was left and then never again.

I know they were months apart and developmentally DD can understand more now (we read a book about nursery a lot before starting) but the fact that she clams up when we see the CM still says a lot even though I tell her I'm not going to leave her with her.

Thanks @olderthanyouthink. I think DD is too young ultimately after lockdown to be ready for such abrupt child care. I tried so hard to avoid this and started settling in sessions in august but because of various reasons none of it went to plan. I do think if I'd picked someone else maybe we would be much further along now.

DD is very sociable and loves classes - she scuttles off and barely pays any attention to me! She just follows the bubbles 😂 I do wonder based on that if she would do better at nursery because there would be more to distract her, but I also think she is too little maybe tor such a formal environment.

I wish there was a way I could stay home with her, or DH could, but it's just not possible.

It's heartening to hear that your little one is settled more now though!

I've had clingy babies in the past but lockdown seems to have made many under one's much harder to settle its taken my latest starter much longer than usual. Personally id say find someone with more experience or who has only your lo or older more independent established children.

I think either nursery or CM can be right for you, but you probably won't know for sure until you try them. I know this isn't that helpful! My 2 both went to CM at this age, as I preferred the 1-2-1 care and that fact that it is closest to the home environment (DS 1 was v clingy). But I was lucky enough to find 2 really good CMs. Eldest DS went to nursery at 3 as CM stopped working. He was fine with the change. Youngest went to (same excellent) nursery at 30 months, but consistently said he didn't like it, and I moved him after only 3 months to a local pre-school which he loves. I think the moral is to not be afraid of trying somewhere based on your instincts, as it is perfectly possible to change your mind and move them if it doesn't work out (even if you do get a bit of stick from DH for changing your mind!).