Nanny gone back to home country

[Anon511]

Hi we are trying to decide what to do, would be interesting to hear how others would deal with this.
We trial hired a new After-school nanny Just two weeks before lockdown. Since lockdown we have not required her service. And because she’s not full time and we only recently hired her, she’s not eligible for the furlough scheme. We felt the right thing to do was to offer her a small proportion of what she would’ve earned (25%) to keep her, though technically she’s on a zero-hour contract so we didn’t have to do anything, particularly since she was still in trial period. It’s a private arrangement to keep her supported and we hope to have her back as soon as we need her service again.

So 8 weeks into lockdown, I contacted her to see if she would be available to do some nannying work at our home. She told me that she has gone back to her home country so not available. I’m a bit miffed as I felt like paying her to retain her so we could use her service was part of the agreement.
Should we have not paid her at all in our circumstances?
I understand since it’s a private arrangement, she didn’t have an obligation to come work for us. On the other hand I feel like somethings not right. Should we continue to pay her? Or stop paying her and just see where she is afterwards? Any thoughts appreciated
TIA

After all the cleaner stuff yesterday this is SO going to end up on Twitter.

I would have thought she was eligible for the furlough scheme
She doesn’t have to be full time

Sam - sorry what do you mean? I haven’t been following social media

Insancerre - we checked with the agency and unfortunately she isn’t eligible

No I wouldn't pay her, I think she had a cheek accepting your money when she wasn't even in the country.

No I wouldn’t pay her. She isn’t available for work.

There was a lot of chat about rich white women expecting their cleaners to risk their lives for them. These white women hate Owen Jones and are transphobic.

MASSIVE DISCLAIMER: I do not personally believe this, just reporting what I saw on Twitter.

Perhaps she thought you were paying her that small amount to ensure she wouldn't look for other work during lockdown. Unless you specifically told her, that money is to keep you in this country incase we decide we need you at any point over the next few months, then I think it's a bit unfair to expect her to know.

These white women hate Owen Jones and are transphobic

What? All white women who have cleaners hate Owen Jones, AND they're transphobic? Do they refuse to employ transwomen as cleaners or something?

How exactly was the nanny meant to pay bills, rent etc on only 25% of her usual income?

Sam - lol I’m neither rich nor white, nor do I expect anyone to risk their lives for me. I wouldn’t ask our nanny to work for us unless government has specifically said it’s safe to do so. We were planning to drive her back and forth to avoid public transport

Sorry why on earth are you paying her still? Are you mad? You'll likely never see her or the cash again.

Thanks for the helpful suggestions.

We were paying her because not sure how long the situation will last. We really like her and it’s so hard to find a good after school nanny (we’ve been searching for months).

I perfectly understand it would be hard for her to stay afloat away from her home country without a full income. I neither question her decision to go back, nor expecting her to stay just for us, but would’ve thought it would’ve been good to let us know that she’s no longer available to work for us, for whatever reason, seeing that we are still paying her.

After all the agreement was to resume working for us and she is no longer available.

Anyway, we had a chat, agreed that we will put it on hold now. If/when she’s back if it’s still suitable we’ll resume working together again.

Nannies have been able to work since lockdown began.
The advice was clear.
IF YOU CANT WORK FROM HOME YOU CAN GO TO WORK!!!!
funny thing, but it is impossible to look after other people children in their own home when you are in your own home.
Every single newspaper has reported this inaccuracy today.
Alot of nannies have worked all through lockdown. Some were happy to work, some asked to be furloughed and were refused. Some were sacked for not working.
Why didn't you ask your nanny to work?
Furlough pay can be paid to part time workers.
A zero hour contract , really ! I expect you had no actual contract with the nanny. You were not employing her but expected her to be self employed, this is not legal.
All nannies should be employed.
You payment was in effect a retainer. Stop paying it now. She was naughty to take it when not available for work.
Going forward , yes after school nannies are difficult to find. The reason the hours are too small for most nannies who need a decent salary. A semi retired person or student might want this kind of job.
But what most people do is extend the hours. Start in the afternoon, nanny does housework and meal prep before collecting children from school. Pay a higher rate for reduced hours.

Florence - I expect English isn’t your first language (neither is mine) but you are coming across unnecessarily aggressive I’m afraid

Why didn’t I ask my nanny to work?

Nannies are allowed to work, doesn’t mean families are required to keep them employed. Work is only allowed if it’s safe to do so and each family and nanny’s circumstances are different.
Again, our nanny was happy to temporarily stop working and this retainer arrangement was mutually agreed.

I already explained we are not eligible for furloughing her, because we literally signed a contract with her a week or two before the lockdown to start the trial employment. Government has a cut off date for that and the contract started after.

Ridiculous to accuse a stranger of not having an official contract when you know nothing about us. The agency did the paperwork and we have received letters from hmrc confirming that we are her employer.

She is a student and only asking for part-time work. She’s also working for another family. We didn’t force her into working for us a few afternoons a week, and she was happy with the arrangement of having a retainer fee and not working for us when lockdown started. The only issue was not letting us know when she first became unavailable, which is now sorted.

If you have issues with your employer, speak to them.
We are just trying to be a reasonable employer and do the right thing, and also protect our rights.

Wow what a response. English is my first language. Do you assume all nannies come from abroad? Nannies and au pairs are different.
I apoligise if you feel I was being aggressive. I'm fed up with people saying nannies couldn't work from the beginning of lockdown.
I have no problem with my employers, so you misunderstood that. I was happy to work. I have a lovely family. However I'm aware of many nannies who have not been treated so well.
The furlough scheme was backdated so I expect you could have furloughed your nanny.
But you decided to pay a retainer. What is the problem. Stop paying it now. If she is not in the country she is not available to work. Find another nanny.

You had a contract then you should have either furloughed her, made her redundant as no job, or paid 100 percent pay. Paying 25 percent was wrong and I'm not sure if its lawful. Was 25 percent minimum wage?

Government has a cut off date for that and the contract started after.

You state you employed the nanny two weeks before lockdown, so around 9th March as lockdown began on 23rd. Staff employed on or before 19th March can be placed on furlough.

Simon - thanks for that info. Our agency told us originally because she started after 28 Feb, we are not eligible for the furlough scheme. We haven’t realized it’s now moved to 19 march - that could change things.

I understand the official wording is the date when she is on official payroll. We trialled her starting on 10 march, signed the contract on 18 march but she didn’t sign the contract until 30 march. We will need to check whether the “date RTI submission notifying payment made to HMRC” by the agency was before or after 19 march.
Fingers crossed.

Her official start date is when the agency put her on their books, as that is when she should have been added to their payroll. It sounds like they may be dodgy/having people work under the table.

Florencemattell given she wasnt working, minimum wage is irrelevant.

Can I ask, what is the bee you have in your bonnet here? It sounds like the OP has tried to do well by her AFTER SCHOOL nanny....when there has been no school and most likely no need for a nanny.

OP you've been more than reasonable, your nanny should have been upfront when going home.

The furlough is more complicated than just being employed - it's about being on the payroll which, if she hadn't been paid yet, she probably wouldnt have been. So even with the move of dates she may not have been eligible.

SimonJT, you don't go on the payroll until your first wage is prepared which is usually a few days to a week before you're paid. It's unlikely that the OP's nanny had been included on a payroll by the 19th of March if she didn't start until the 10th unless she is paid weekly but even then, there's usually a lie week first

Thanks Methtones. We do try to be fair.

Yappity - the agency has a monthly payment system. I get an invoice on the last day of the month (31 march is the first one), and it’s paid on 7 April. Does that mean 31 march would be the payroll date which makes us ineligible?

@Anon511 I would think so. The agency were most likely paying your nanny monthly if you were getting monthly invoices. She probably wasn't included in an RTI until at least the 24th of March I would say (payroll is submitted before the paydate).

However, did she join the agency before she came to you? Because if she did, that may not have been her first time being paid. It's the agencies issue anyway, you pay invoices, you aren't her employer technically?