Absolutely terrified of childcare costs. Is this a decent alternative or am I making a deal with the devil?

[greenPandas]

Recently had my ds and have been looking into the price of childcare in London. I realised that I would have to fork out roughly £1000 a month to have him in nursery full-time while I work.

Definitely cannot afford to do this. But I really cannot afford to take time off work either. I have few people gunning for my job and being constantly absent would give management the opportunity to put me on the backbench.

I spoke to a friend who told me about a new company that covers your child care for the year and spreads the cost. You pay them back over a longer period of time. I contacted them and found out that I could pay £200 pounds a month over 3 years rather than the £900 (think of it like car financing).

It would help massively because it means an extra £700 with every pay check. But I am a little nervous, because it is essentially a loan.

Although I do need help with childcare, I'm not too sure if financing is the best option. It's a relatively new company and haven't met many people who have used them.

What do you guys think? What would you do if you were in my shoes? Should I go for it, or just bear the costs.

Hi, have you looked into tax free childcare, this is where you pay 80% of the care costs and the government pays 20%. I am sorry but it sounds very odd and as a childminder would not accept any money from this “company” it could be money lauding, drug money etc

Hi,

I am trying to solve this exact issue > expensive childcare through trust - I know this won't help you now but I would be so grateful if you could read the below and let me know your thoughts!

I am a young female working a Product Manager in a well known company in Central London. The role of a PM is to build technology that people want to use. I have built many apps, which has taught me a lot but I really want to work on something which will genuinely help people (not just sell more stuff).

I have four sisters, three of which have had babies and childcare seems to be a issue which has not yet been solved - I have been thinking over the past year how technology might be able to help with this.....

and so my idea (feedback very very very welcome) ....

I am thinking of creating an app, which connects people based on their babies expected DOB, their lifestyle, work schedules etc. in the late stages of pregnancy (sort of like Tinder haha). The thinking behind this being that if you can meet another mum/ dad who is in a similar situation as you, aka is having a baby but wants to return to work part-time, then you can build trust over time during the pregnancy/mat leave . This trust will then enable you to organise a schedule where you can look after each others children while the other goes to work. Theoretically (although I understand families come in all shapes and sizes) if you split this across 2 sets of parents (equality!) then this would mean you would only have to take off around a day a week. This would result in essentially free childcare and will be minimal damage to your career. This could work on a points system using the app..?

What do you guys think? :D

So instead of looking after one baby, you would be looking after 2?
I think I’d rather go to work

Heyhew: you are assuming work will permit you to go part time (yes, I'm still bitter, especially as the woman who took over from me went pt a year after I'd left)

@HayHew I like your thinking and its great to see people begin to look into this more. On a practical level I'm not sure how well this would work across the board (though would certainly appeal to some). Some consideration points:

• Mum would probably want to be P/T to spend quality time with DC..not necessarily babysit another child. For example, my closest friends have kids and are off on days where I put DC in nursery, yet it would never cross my mind to expect them to have DC for me and I wouldn't want to babysit for them on my day off either. It's too much stress!
• Extra unseen costs - double buggy needed, extra travel cot etc. Though this would be offset by the cheaper childcare fees anyway
• If the other mum is off sick then what happens? This is the problem with childminders and why a lot of people chose to pay more for nursery where the childcare is guaranteed.
• What about holidays? Would you have to agree to go away at the same time to avoid leaving the other high and dry?

Something about it just doesn't sound right to me. £1000 per month doesn't seem that crazy for London, we are in the SW and it cost more than that here for full time care. It is a lot of money though, childminder tend to work out a bit cheaper or could you take a normal loan from elsewhere?

ALSO if you're looking after the children in your own home then you will need to be registered.

Payment in kind (ie turn-and-turn-about) still counts.

Your childcare costs will be 1,000 / mth for 3 years minimum. So you will need to borrow 24x3= £72k plus interest as a minimum. That is ridiculous and I can’t believe you are are even entertaining the idea.

Have you looked at childminders . Around here it is about £2 an hour cheaper .

@HayHew there's also a risk via HMRC I think. I'm sure I read about 2 police officers who took different shifts so that they could share childcare and save money. I think HMRC went after them. I'll see if I can find the link.

2009!!!!!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/sep/28/government-orders-review-babysitting-police

What your proposing is ni better than getting a payday loan theres a reason why these companies have all shut down they exploited people. Reputable companies will not allow you to go into debt to live becouse it just makes the problem worse and you risk losing your home etc. Look at alternatives childminders and nurseries maybe out of your way a bit. In my area of west london rates can very from £3 per hour to £8 by going 3 miles.
Are you single on low income? Use childcare choices to see about tax credits or if reasonable income the tax free scheme.

HayHew

^

You need to create another thread. Don't hog the op's.

@HayHew.
This is how unregulated childcare used to work unfortunately it led to abuse and neglect for some how would you legally stand if a child came to harm, the child got injured in an accident, left with a friend who was dodgey, drug dealing or drinking in the house etc. People dont tell you oh by the way I'm having s baby but I'm an abused person, I cang afford heating, I drink a bottle of cider a day etc.

@greenPandas do you have a link to the company?

I googled to see if I could find info about a loan. I could only find information about a childcare deposit scheme nothing about monthly recurring costs.

HayHew as others have said that's actually illegal. My mum's generation did it that way 45+ years ago (without an app obviously)but these days you have to register as a childminder - including taking the compulsory training and being inspected before starting and regularly, and keeping accounts and records, having policy statements and indemnity insurance and following the early years curriculum). You also have to declare the payment in kind.

@heyhew I don’t see how it would work since most people want to work 9-5 mon-fri. I wouldn’t leave my child with a stranger anyway

OP - why not just get a normal loan? As a Pp said Sainsbury offer very low rates

Starlight456 they won't be in London though - in Surrey childminders charged between £4 and £5.50 per hour even 14 years ago... I charged £5 per hour and was fully booked in advance of opening my childming business while still working out my notice as a teacher.

Registering as a childminder actually is a pragmatic solution under some circumstances - you can mind two other full time children (or combination of part time children to fill two full time places) and actually be financially better off than you might be working and paying someone else for childcare if you were on an average or below average wage.

However it's unsuitable if you're in your chosen career already and don't want to take time out, or if you've no savings or earning partner as a safety net to pay basic essential bills if a mindee's parent disappears without paying/ is late paying (always take a deposit and payment in advance, but you can still be left in the lurch if you aren't brutal about cancelling a contract with no notice in the event of advanced payment being late by X days, plus you then have a place to fill and might not find a new mindee without a gap).

Also obviously most people (to be honest) aren't temperamentally suited to looking after 3 preschoolers, two of whom aren't their own. Your home also has to be suitable of course.

Would love to see a link for this scheme

But avoid avoid avoid

As others have said - for every year you will be paying 3

So I’d have 3yrs childcare till they are 4 if take full maternity then paying back for 9

@HayHew

As a point of fact, childcare arrangements between friends are not necessarily unlawful. The government made changes to the requirements to register with Ofsted as a knee jerk reaction to the Daily Mail's moral panic over the case of the two police officers.

However, I would not take that as a green light to launch your app. There are still strict parameters within which childcare between friends is lawful. Most obviously, I would think meeting someone online with the sole intention of arranging childcare would not constitute "friends" in any normal or legal sense.

Only an Ofsted-registered childcarer can take legal responsibility for a child. In other words, anyone leaving a child with a no-registered person remains responsible for whatever happens to them whilst they’re at work. In practice, this means if the child is harmed or involved in an accident, the parents can be held responsible by social services. Also worth noting that children’s social care officers consider leaving a child in non-registered 'care' as an indicator of neglect.

A couple of very obvious issues with your app spring to mind. How are you going to vet users to ensure they are genuine and safe? Even big IT giants like FB consistently fail to week out abusers. You might well be legally liable for the consequences of such abuse. Even if you can legally disclaim responsibility (unlikely but....) is that still something you want to have on your conscience?

It’s also possible you might find yourself subject to regulation. I can’t be sure on this, but the functionality of your app may well mean you are acting as a de facto childcare agency. That would mean you would need to register and be regularly inspected by Ofsted. That would further require you to train and run background checks on all the families, make them follow set policies and procedures, and then Ofsted would regularly inspect a sample of the families too.