Childminder changed circumstances now wont pay deposit

[Dancingqueenwannabe]

Hi all,
So I dont know what to do and need some advice. Apologies in advance for the essay just wanted to give you all the facts!
I signed my 3yr old and 1yr old ds to a childminder after word of mouth said she was good. She lived at the bottom of my estate so was perfect for when I was going to work and she dropped off at the local school where ds was going - all too good to be true.
I paid the £100 deposit to secure their places, £50 each child, but recieved no paperwork or contract to state any terms about the deposit. Just it would secure their places, had to give 4 weeks notice if we wanted to cancel and the deposit would be returned to us. Fine
Then a few months ago she informed me the house she was in was rented and she had to move. However, she was going to build a hut in another childminders garden and they would both work from there. Various meetings with her ensued and I felt uneasy about the situation. It was a longer walk for 3yr old and 1 year old would be in the pram for quite a lot of time during the day. I asked around but all other childminders were booked and nurseries in the area didnt drop off to the school, so we stuck with her.
More things then went wrong and circumstances changed many times in the run up to the boys starting. I was becoming more anxious about them starting with her. So I made the difficult decision to pull them out of her care (they hadn't had any settling in days or even met her properly yet). She understood but said as it was just under 4 weeks notice (by about 2 days) she couldn't give me the deposit back until she had someone else to take their places. She then text me back and agreed to give me £50 straight away as I had only cancelled due to the change of circumstances.... that was 2 months ago.
I haven't recieved a penny back. I've seen her about and have heard she has replaced the spaces for my boys. I've messaged her and shes ignoring me... what can I do?

I would message her a last time saying you want your money or you will post on social media that she was refused your refund even though you have a verbal agreement. It’s sounds like the women isn’t very professional and is just looking to make some extra cash. If you don’t massively need the money You could just count it as a life lesson and just spread the word what’s happened

Her problem is that she agrees you should be paid but has spent your deposit money and has such tight margins that she will find it difficult to make ends meet when she does the decent thing and repays you.

Write her a letter stating that you have completed the paperwork to file a small claims case against her for the return of the £100 that she has agreed to return to you, but you will not submit it unless the money has still not been repaid by 28 days from today. She can then wait till she next gets money in (probably around the 1st November) and can pay you then. Having that formal notice makes her debt to you move up the priority scale when she is choosing what to spend on.

Tell her you are going to complain to OFSTED, that should do the trick.

I'd write her a formal letter saying the full debt of £100 needs to be paid in £14 days or you will issue a small claim. It's really easy to do online nowadays.

With my deposits all parents receive a deposit receipt paperwork at time of contract signing which they sign to say they understand, this states deposits are none refundable if you do not take the space up or leave in first 4 weeks. I then hold the deposit until they leave my care and the last invoice has been paid in full and no fees owed. ( been stung in past with parents just leaving and no pay for notice period or paying what they want to (less) than invoice amount. So in these situations I would not refund deposit as I am still offering the contract it’s you who changed your mind. In your case if she said she would refund if should so I would contact her again, there is no point contacting Ofsted as they will not be interested in contract / money issues, you will be surprised by the number of parents all over Facebook, web who to get out of paying childcare bills threaten the childminder with Ofsted making up anything when no problem before hand. ( not saying this is you)

Ofsted won't do any thing as it's a contractual dispute, not a Safeguarding dispute.

Turn up. Preferably just before parents of her minders do to collect their kids. Don't shout but speak with a loud clear voice.

Thanks everyone.
I'm in education so know Ofsted won't do anything, would the council who she has to register with?
I appreciate I cancelled the contract, however on many occasions she said she understood that the change of circumstances wasn't ideal and I could cancel and would receive my deposit back. She also verbally promised the whole deposit back if she found children to replace the boys (which I have heard she has). I can't really afford to just leave it as we have found a new nursery for the boys (luckily a new one has just opened in our area) and I need to pay them.
My friend was also with her and she has taken her children out due to the change of circumstances. She told my friend she has already spent the money so she can't have it back (her boys had 2 settling in visits with her).
It's so frustrating as she wont answer or return my calls or reply to my messages.

It's cms like her that give us all a bad name.

Word of mouth is the best way to damage a reputation- and social media. Keep it factual though.

If you really need the money I'd turn up at her door at collection time along with other parents and say you are here for your money. If she doesn't have cash say you'll walk with her to the cash machine. Take a witness with you.

Whoever mentioned 'report her to Ofsted' that'll do the trick' no love, it won't and you are a bit of a nob for suggesting that

”....would the council who she has to register with?"

Her registration is with Ofsted, not her local authority. The LA will probably hold her details only for purposes of environmental health inspection (most childminders are registered as food businesses with the Food Standards Agency) and on a database/search facility to enable parents to look for childcarers.

You could report her to the local trading standards office. This could result in them taking sanctions against her, and might further support any legal/debt recovery action you may take, but it won’t directly lead to your refund.

I don’t think the repayment issue need necessarily be a massive hurdle. She may be cash-strapped, but £100 is not a huge business debt. The small claims system usually expects you to have made some attempt to negotiate first, so I would start by offering a repayment plan of £5-£10 per week. But, for heaven’s sake, get anything you agree in writing with mutual signatures and record any/all repayments in like fashion.

The biggest obstacle you face is the lack of a paper trail. Verbal contracts are undoubtedly still contracts, but they are exceptionally difficult to prove and therefore difficult to enforce.

The lesson is to never part with a penny unless you have a contract with which you are happy, and insist on receipts for any and all payments. Preferably use a traceable form of payment, such as a bank transfer.

By the way, be very wary of using social media or word of mouth to lay into someone’s business reputation, no matter how much you might think it is well-deserved. If you’re doing this with the intent to harm her reputation/business, it can get you into a world of trouble, even though you might be limiting it to entirely factual information.

I don't want to go down the route of running her reputation or bad mouthing her on social media. It's a dispute between myself and her and not something I want to ruin her business over.

I have a text message from her that states she will pay the money back and another one apologising for not paying yet and giving me a date she will pay, which has now passed. So if it goes to small claims I have evidence she will pay back.

I entered the contract under different circumstances than now - I was more than happy to pay the money as she was providing the service we needed. As things began to change and she encountered problem (and often hid the truth from me and to what was happening) the service wasn't what we expected or wanted for our boys.

Thanks everyone for all of your advice. I'm wording a letter to post through her new business address with a payment plan option and a date as to when I want payment by or will take matters further.

I haven’t quite got my head around the sequence of events leading up to the point where you pulled the children out of her care.

Did they ever actually start being cared for by the childminder?

Was the originally agreed start date adhered to?

Or, was it missed because of the issue over childminder's need to find new premises? Or because you terminated the agreement?

They were never actually cared for by her, they didn't even have settling in sessions as the situation changed again before they started. So I terminated the agreement before they had been in her care.

So you have no signed contract with her whatsoever and you paid her £100 with no receipt or contract signed? If so this is really foolish on both parts and will be more difficult to prove.

From her text messages it looks like she knows morally she should give you the money back but as you cancelled the arrangement she could argue that is why she asks for deposits to protect herself financially. As you have no contract there is no evidence that what you agreed with her fundamentally changed and tbh her changing her setting address is not necessarily a deal breaker.

I would write/message her pointing out you are still waiting for your refund and suggest she pays you £10/£20 per week if she is struggling to repay the whole amount at once. I think she is probably hoping you will forget about it.

You may have ultimately cancelled your verbal agreement, but she sought to vary the terms without you specifically agreeing. You can’t rely on an agreement that you have gone back on yourself.

It was more than just changing address, there were lots of other changes with fundamentally change our original agreement - which she agreed.

I agree it was foolish to pay the money over with no exchange of contracts. However she said that she would send out signed agreement as soon as possible. I was I holiday at the time and had to secure their places.

I don’t think you were foolish to expect her to act more professionally. If she was trustworthy enough to look after your kids I’d like expect her to be trustworthy with your money!

Hmmm..... it’s all over complicated by the lack of a written contract, up here goes.

If the childminder's changed circumstances happened before you gave notice substantially changed the service she had agreed to provide, you can argue that you cancelled because you were not going to get what was agreed. That would mean the usual notice period didn’t apply, and you’d be due a full refund.

The problem in taking this position is that, initially at least, you appear to have indicated your willingness to press on with the arrangement despite the changes. It also relies, to some degree, on you having stated that you were giving notice for this particular reason.

Otherwise, it is fairly clear that you gave her notice because you changed your mind. That wouldn’t necessarily mean losing your whole deposit. The childminder would be entitled to keep some, but not usually the whole amount. Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, a business can only retain an amount that represents their actual monetary loss, after having taken reasonable steps to mitigate their loss.

But, all those legalities notwithstanding, one also has to consider the childminder has made commitments to return the money. That rather changes the game in your favour, but you will need evidence of that if she later denies it. Ultimately, if you can’t even prove that money changed hands in the first place, then you’re on a very sticky wicket.

Right now you need to be insisting on a full refund in easy instalments. Also see if you can get CAB or a solicitor to assess if you have a case worth taking through the small claims procedure. Some solicitors offer a free short consultation to decide if something is worth the candle, or you may have some legal cover through your home insurance policy.

Tell her you are going to complain to OFSTED, that should do the trick
No it won't. They have no interest in contractual disagreements

My grandchild started at a childminder and was there for 4 days. She terminated the contract on the basis that the contract my daughter signed allowed her to cancel within 2 weeks if she had not settled in. She has kept the 400 deposit and refuses to give any of it back as my daughter had signed the contract. Is this reasonable? Do all childminding contracts have this clause? she never once made any effort to help her settle and is 4 days a reasonable settling in period for a 2.5 year old. Is there any way to complain?