Is this a safeguarding flag?

[Roeyouboat]

I am asking here as I think having not long become a childminder and completed all my safeguarding courses I am over thinking so hope some of you with more experience can help me. I was with family friends today, not childminding. I was I a room witn the kids as my DD was youngest and needs supervised. The little girl 6 of the family whispered something to me and her older brother 11 get uptight and pushed her off the bed saying if you tell her I will tell about you. The little girl told me again and this time I made it out she said Xxx and me love each other we pretend to be girl friend and boyfriend. I asked how do you do that but the brother started horse playing again and my daughter asked for a drink. It was all done light heartedly and she was giggling whilst telling me but it has played on my mind since. I know the family well and know it cannot be broached with them without lifelong repercussions as the boy can do no wrong. And he is a model child if it was not for that one comment I would have no reason to worry hence why I would like advice from those who have more experience of safeguarding and actually just children that age as all my experience is preschool age.

This is absolutely a safeguarding red flag and you cannot ignore it. Hopefully it is totally innocent but it could be a warning sign of sexual abuse. Is there no way you can broach this with the parents without making accusations? If not, you need to consider reporting to social services or possibly the child’s school safeguarding lead (although difficult as they have probably broken up for the summer now).

Thank you for replying, I am almost certain its innocent but just needed reassuring that I am not wrong to act on it. I will talk with SS and see what they think.

I don't understand your post. Are you saying the little girl and her brother pretend to be boyfriend and girlfriend?

I think it's possible that they do innocently play at being boyfriend and girlfriend and the boy was just embarrassed at that but it is something that raises a concern.

Can you call the NSPCC for advice?

Lots of children play mummies and daddies. If it's something innocent like that then there's no issue.
Using the phrase boyfriend and girlfriend is concerning though. Are there any other things they've said or done that has caused you any concern at all?

I think it is odd sibling behaviour. Mine would never dream of that because we talk about relationships and how brothers and sisters don’t marry/be boyfriend or girlfriend etc. I don’t any siblings that would do that either.

So a red flag for me

Very unusual for a boy of 11 to be playing boyfriend and girlfriend with a young sibling ring NCPCC for advice it maybe that something else has been logged and this information makes the difference.

"[we] love each other" could indicate sexual involvement or be a perfectly natural expression of facial affection.

Playing "girlfriend and boyfriend" could indicate sexual abuse or could mean they hold hands and pretend to go to the pictures. An 11yo boy is likely to find either case embarrassing and not want it talked about. Any 11yo boy I know would be mortified if it were known that he played anything with a 6yo little sister.

You clearly have a 'concern' in your mind or you’d not have posted. So you need to follow your safeguarding procedure. Screaming "red flag" is a bit dramatic before very much is known; it merely demonstrates some people delight in jumping to the worst of conclusions ahead of the facts. Following procedure means calmly collecting facts before deciding on the appropriate action to take. Collecting facts means open question to both children and, possibly, the parents.

The appropriate action might be to do nothing, if you are satisfied there isn’t no risk. It can mean discussions with the parents, if you are satisfied no harm has been done, but there may be a need to ensure such games remain innocent. It can mean a call to your Children’s Social Care safeguarding hub if you suspect a clear and present risk.

Whether or not you involve the parents is entirely a matter of whether there is reason to believe a child would be at greater risk by doing so. (ie. could it lead to further harm or covering of evidence?)

I have some concern over this statement: "I know the family well and know it cannot be broached with them without lifelong repercussions." Could you please explain, as it may have some bearing on the matter.

Yes report any concern that you have. Discrete work by your DSL will ascertain if it needs further investigation. If it is on your mind go with your instinct.

The family are my sister in laws, in laws. So I feel and as the boy was a much longed for rainbow baby I know that by asking about it i will be seen as accusing and cause what maybe an irreparable rift between the families. I did however talk with my sil yesterday in a very light way I did not mention safe guarding or the like just i never imagined an 11 would happily play such young games and she told me a few other things, he still at least pretends to believe in Santa etc. My concern has basically be erased by looking at him not as an average 11 year old but the boy I know. Who last year was setting traps to catch fairies with my DD and who was thrilled meeting princess in Disneyland. I believe he is just a kind maybe a little young for his age boy and his reaction to his sister telling me was actually just asign of him growing out of that phase and not wanting others to know he still sometimes enjoys the magic of imaginative play. Thankyou all for your responses.

Good that you’ve opened the dialogue with the parents. I can’t help thinking you should mention to them about the safeguarding angle, so they’re aware to look out for possible signs in the future. Perhaps the way to say it is something like, "your DD said this, and it’s almost certainly innocent but just keep an eye on things; in some quarters that comment could trigger a safeguarding process."

It’s a shame there is so much paranoia around safeguarding. Much of it ends up having quite the opposite effect to that which is intended.

You may need to reconsider whether this childcare arrangement is viable. Circumstances seem to indicate there is something of a conflict of interests. There is always the possibility, however small, of a dilemma between genuine safeguarding responsibility and an understandable urge to keep things in the family for the sake of good relations. Any time a childminder takes on any client they nee£ to ask themselves: am I prepared to do this on an entirely 'professional' level, even if that might mean involving agencies such as social services?

My concern has basically be erased by looking at him not as an average 11 year old but the boy I know.

This is dangerous. You are not able to make that judgement. He said something potentially very concerning. I think you have to tell someone so this can be evaluated by a professional.

My DS is 4 and plays 'mummies and daddies' with his (female) cousin of the same age. By this I mean, they push a toy pram around with a doll in it and pretend to to to the shops or pretend to be the parents of my younger son.

At 11... I don't know, this sort of thing would be very unusual. Even if he is quite immature generally. I would still raise it with the parents.

This is not a childminding situation it's a family situation but they are not even my family they are in laws of my in laws. I see the kids 4 - 6 times a year. But know a lot about the family threw my in laws who I have spoken too about it.

Report it. If there is no cause for concern, fair enough, but you are not in a position to make that judgement. How would you feel, if it some point in the future that little girl says she told someone she was being abused and was ignored? I don't know about childminders, but as a school employee, I am obliged to report anything like this, regardless of whether the child is one of our pupils or not.

"This is not a childminding situation it’s a family situation"

If (and I still think it’s a big 'if') this turns out to be a case of peer-on-per abuse, the type of situation won’t make one jot of difference. As far as agencies like Ofsted are concerned, it involves a child in your care. They are only interested in how you handle it, not whether you are related, or whether you’re making money, or have contracts, or anything else.

In any case, the relationship is not sufficiently close for Ofsted, etc to consider it to be a family situation.

So just a little update, it's all innocent. My SIL from what I told her also thought there MAYbe a concern so she spoke to her brother the kids Dad he asked the little girl and she has told them the just play at phone calls and going on dates he asked about the dates and they involve a play kitchen and imaginative waitresses. The Dad is aware now although the Mum has not been informed as Dad agreed she would see the concern as an accusation.

That's not normal, he's 11 years old and to be scared about her telling someone is massive red flag! The way he acted when she came and whispered to you! It's not tight. If parents very approachable yes if they would be upset with you I would be contacting S/S ASAP