Self-employed nanny - HELP!

[Amywmcg]

Hi ladies
We have a lovely lady (a family friend) about to start helping us out 2/3 days a week looking after our kids whilst I am at work (part time). She has told us that she is self-employed as she works for other families too, as well as as hoc babysitting. I am just wondering if anyone has had a similar situation and is this really self-employment or will she be deemed an employee of us by HMRC? I can’t seem to find a clear answer anywhere, including on the HMRC website. We will have a flexible schedule so the days and hours she works will vary each week, she provides a car and pays for petrol, and won’t get paid holiday, and is responsible for paying her own tax and NI. We will be paying an hourly rate and invoiced monthly. I’m a bit confused and want to make sure we do everything properly so any guidance would be appreciated. Thank you.

She may well be with that schedule. Just call the self-employment team on Monday and confirm with them.

I don't think you can be a self employed nanny? Nannynick would be able to advise, but I would have thought that she would need to be a two day employee.

If she works set days/hours that you dictate then that isn't self employed...

It’s the job that’s employment or self employment not the person. She can’t just decide that, HMRC will tell you what it falls under if you’re not sure.

The key thing here is likely to be the flexible schedule. If you are proposing to ask her to work x and y days next week, can she say that she can do x but can't do y? How flexible is it really going to be, if you want reliability then you will want to agree working days well in advance, so more likely to be employment.

Be really careful with this.. we were going to have a nanny, she said she was self employed but I checked the self employment checker on hmrc and I would say it’s dodgy ground and you as the employer would be liable if any fines came up!

Personal care (for children or adults) is never self employment unless it's occasional and makes up less than 10% of their weekly income i was told. My cleaner (2 hours a week) is fine because she has many clients and tells us when she's coming (ok it's negotiable but she is in control) whereas the carers come when we book them. The good news is it's easy to do your own payroll and employee pension, I've done it for years

If the prospect of doing payroll yourself really scares you, then there are nanny payroll companies who will do the admin for you, typically their services cost around £200-£250 a year (for monthly payslips). There are various providers: NannyPaye, Way2Paye, PayeForNannies, NannyTax, NannyMatters to name just a few of them.

I used PayeForNannies and it was easy peasy. I expect the others are similar. The fee is very low for the peace of mind, IMO. But your nanny may not want to work like this.

If she can say 'sorry I'm not free for those hours that you want me next month' she's likely SE.

A PP is right - if the authorities decide one day that she has actually been your employee, not self-employed, you will be the one responsible for all the tax / NI the employer should have paid.

My understanding was that if they work for more than one family they need to be registered as a childminder even if the service they are providing to individual families is more akin to nannying.

It's a grey area, why is a regular babysitter every Thursday night so a single mum can attend a evening course 'ok' but a nanny covering a few hours one day a week during the day not?

We use a woman who is a self employed childcare provider who provides care for at least 4 families on a regular basis as well as adhoc babysitting and one off or emergency care for many others. I generally need her the same day/ time each week and occasionally extra but ultimately I don't know each week when I text her if she will say yes or not. I basically suggest the times I want her and she either says yes or no, much like a cleaner/plumber/dog walker.

Fortunately she rarely says no to us and let's us know in advance if she's not going to be around so we can make other plans, but she is essentially in complete control of who she provides services to and when, and so I'm satisfied that she is properly self employed.

Room - no in the UK, childminders work in their own home, not the families.

Yes I know

As I said if a nanny is looking after the children of more than two families in the family's homes they still have to register as a childminder even if they call themselves a nanny.

Feel free to check gov.uk

It's a difficult area because it is about weighing up different factors. Nobody can answer until you have already done it and a tribunal has made a decision.

I would say it is very difficult to be a self employed nanny because it is your house, your child and your rules. It is not like a plumber where the agreement is to fix a pipe and he can go about doing that as he likes. You have more control over how the job is done.

Can she turn down work?

My cleaner is self-employed - she tells me when she is available, and sometimes sends someone else to cover.

My nanny is employed - I tell her which days and hours I need and she can't turn them down unless she books annual leave, which I have to authorise.

You state flexible hours and days

If she turns round and says no I can’t /don’t want to work that next week she is se

What would you do if she isn’t free. Or do you expect her to do every shift uou ask

*As I said if a nanny is looking after the children of more than two families in the family's homes they still have to register as a childminder even if they call themselves a nanny.

Feel free to check gov.uk*

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to exactly where on gov.uk it says this as I’ve never seen it anywhere.

A childminder works in their own home

A nanny or nanny share works in the families home

A genuine self employed nanny works for several nannies on an ad hoc or short term basis eg maternity nanny or emergency cover nanny.

I see the confusion.
Nannies need to register if they look after the children from MORE than 2 families AT THE SAME TIME.

That’s not happening here.

RoomR0613
A nanny could be employed by five seperate families; working at a different house and caring for different children every day if she wanted.
But if she works at one home she can only look after the children for upto two families. This is called a nanny share.
Anymore than two families at one home and the nanny would indeed have to register as a childminder. The house would need to conform to childminding regulations re safety, hygiene, etc