Dh signed CM contract for extortionate fee- can we back out?

[IntentsAndPorpoises]

We are in a bit of a childcare crisis. Thought we'd found a CM, dh went to meet her today. He signed the contact and then called me to query the amount. Putting aside his idiocy of signing when he wasn't sure, and not questioning it, what can we do.

I sent her a message querying fee. The contract states £50 a day for 2 children wrap around care. From 7.45am until 8.45 (school) and 3.15 until 5.15, one day until 5. I work this out as therefore being £8.30 an hour PER child! The rate around here is £4.50 to £5. And she has stated her rate is £5.

Additionally she has put the hours as 7.45 to 9 (school starts at 8.45) and 3 (school finishes at 3.15) to 5.15.

I am going to call her (I'm currently on a train and signal is patchy) but what can we do if she won't change it? What are the implications of just saying no thanks and finding something else?

Agree with you OP. Cottage industries charging what they feel like hardly fulfill the needs of a working population, particularly in the UK which is effectively a low wage economy with a high cost of living.

I agree the current childcare system in the U.K. is not fit for purpose. The cost keeps far too many (mostly) women out of work.

Unfortunately, the general public don’t want subsidised childcare. They chose to vote for a coalition government, then the Conservatives, who cut nearly all funding, bursaries and subsidies for the Early Years.

You’re now charged what it actually costs to provide childcare. If you want a comparison, I once had to take a taxi after hours from the hospital where my DD had been rushed in earlier that day. It’s around the same distance as one of the schools I pick up from.
I was charged £25. That’s without the childcare, activities and meals that I would provide - and you say you have 2 children?

Tanith my point is that it should be subsidised so that providers get paid enough and parents can work.

As I've said many times, this CM was not providing any food. And they walk to school.

That aside it's a ridiculous situation if parents can't afford to work. And yes I did factor that in when having children. But as I've said this was an amount of money out of sync with other childcare we've used. It's difficult to predict 10 yrs in advance to know what you will have to spend.

Also if my dd's current school had met her legal rights to education and supported her then this wouldn't be an issue.

If she won't let you cancel, surely you can give notice and start with someone else soon?

Yes we can, I'd rather not because my dd has ASD and that is a lot of a change again after only a few weeks.

In Scandinavia around 50% of what you earn goes in tax, which many would not accept in this country.....

As a note you said it was a Pacey contract, so look to see if she has given you a settling in period (not the time when you go for short visits but a time in which each party can decide to end the contract and only work done is paid for....its in the settling in section with details in the small print on reverse of pg 2 (I think).

Please also check that other providers do not charge a minimum hours or set fees because often the hourly rate is the rate charged for full time children not part time or wrap around, you don't want to burn your boats.

Tell her if she won't let you cancel you'll give notice anyway and it would be cleaner for everyone just to let you go.

jannier - In Scandinavia around 50% of what you earn goes in tax, which many would not accept in this country.....

In the 1970s perhaps but not these days.

I live in Sweden which is famous for high taxes but reforms mean that most people pay 23-26% in tax - made up of:
19-23% in Local Authority taxes for local services - schools, social services and care, refuse collection, water and sewage, street cleaning and snow ploughing etc
10-13% in County tax - which mostly funds healthcare

Only higher earners pay any state or national taxes they pay an additional 20% on the portion of their income that exceeds £43,000

I can’t help wondering what the reaction would be on here if this sort of situation were reversed. If a childminder had signed a standard contract with a parent for the all too common £4 or so, then the childminder's DP how crazy s/he is to provide a service for so little money, considering the costs, qualifications, experience and lengthy wo4king week, etc.

Would everyone be encouraging the childminder in my example to back of the contract with a clean conscience and no obligations?

Well my advice would be the same, yes. Check the cancellation provisions, apologise and try and negotiate, take into account how likely the other side is to peruse legal options (taking into account the loss they have suffered).

The OP has acknowledged that it was a bit of a cock up and she is in no way accusing the childminder of being money grabbing. I don't think this is a childminder bashing thread.

Fair enough, although I think the word "extortionate" is a little ill-considered, and it’s depressing that people continue to believe that dangerously low fees are the way forward.

The OP and many others have called for childcare to be subsidised by the government.

I think that's an acknowledgment of the fact that childcare that is affordable for parents but provides a decent wage for childcare providers probably just isn't achievable via the normal free market.

Again I agree.

But i don’t see how it’s "extortionate" for a working woman to charge a fee that reflects her costs and might, all things considered, bring her up to something like minimum wage for her hours worked. In what way is she extorting money?

Other unhelpful posts mentioned "crazy prices"; "bloody cheeky" CM fees; and "stuff her contract". Do you find these reasonable or helpful?

The "lack of choice" which the OP highlights is, for the most part, down to the fact that fees are unrealistically low. Childcare providers really can’t wait for someone to sort out the funding/subsidy issue, although they are remarkably reluctant to make the most of a 'buyers market' in the way any other business might. Fees continue to be depressed and lag behind cost increases through a strange combination of sympathy for parents, loyalty, and the bizarre notion that childcare settings have to locally price-match to other settings.

Funding and subsidy has been a total mess for many years; although it has to be said there has never previously been as much help for working families as there is today. But when childcare providers were crying out for the system to be completely reformed, it was parents and parent lobby organisations who voted for the mess to be made worse by extending rather than reforming a broken system.

I suppose I considered it extortionate compared to other local prices. Another CM who has space for some of the days is charging £4.20 an hour with food. That makes her £15 cheaper a day. And she's always full. She rounds up to the nearest half hour. I think £5 an hour without food is expensofor where we live (Yorkshire).

The issue where I live is the large number of working parents. The place we moved from, most families had at least one sahm or very part time parent and/or lots of grandparents doing childcare.

As I said the most expensive, outstanding nursery is a max of £50 a day for full day care, and I know that it is considered expensive.

Maybe it was an emotional response by me, realising that after years of working and now securing my dream job, I may not be able to do it, or be in a deficit because of childcare costs.

I think extortionate in this circumstances fairly clearly means "very high", not that OP thinks the CM is literally trying to extort money.

Thinking Waitrose is extortionate compared to Tesco isn't a condemnation of all supermarkets. Nor does it mean I think Waitrose are doing anything wrong, it's just more than I want to pay.

I think the OP was asking for advice about a fairly specific set of circumstances. Laying the ills of the entire childcare industry at her door is a bit unfair.

You said you emailed her, OP. Did she reply?

We spoke on the phone and came to an agreement. She wasn't that nice about it but then I suppose she has a right not to be. I explained we would give immediate notice and this wouldn't be great for my dd, and possibly not for her. But ultimately she is running a business. We agreed an amount of compensation.