Dh signed CM contract for extortionate fee- can we back out?

[IntentsAndPorpoises]

We are in a bit of a childcare crisis. Thought we'd found a CM, dh went to meet her today. He signed the contact and then called me to query the amount. Putting aside his idiocy of signing when he wasn't sure, and not questioning it, what can we do.

I sent her a message querying fee. The contract states £50 a day for 2 children wrap around care. From 7.45am until 8.45 (school) and 3.15 until 5.15, one day until 5. I work this out as therefore being £8.30 an hour PER child! The rate around here is £4.50 to £5. And she has stated her rate is £5.

Additionally she has put the hours as 7.45 to 9 (school starts at 8.45) and 3 (school finishes at 3.15) to 5.15.

I am going to call her (I'm currently on a train and signal is patchy) but what can we do if she won't change it? What are the implications of just saying no thanks and finding something else?

Wouldn’t cm need both signatures on contract. Yours and his

So £50 a day - £20 is before school care £10 each child

So £30 - £15per child each after school

Assume both under 8 so she needs to charge full 3 hrs 3/315-6
As both taking a 5-8 yr space so it is £5 ph

Or that’s my working out

No, doesn't need both signatures.

No you don’t need both parents signature. Technically, the contract is between OPs DH and the childminder as he is the one who has engaged her services and signed the contract. In reality it’s between both parents and the childminder but you don’t need to both sign it. You can. But you don’t need to. Lots of single parents purchase childcare without their ex’s permission.

One child is under 8, the other is over.

Agree that high flat fees for wraparound are common for childminders and you do just have to suck it up. They're a business and they really don't care that you're seeing so little of your own earnings. It sucks but that's how it is.

Could you start lobbying with other parents for the school to provide wraparound? Ime school provision is much cheaper.

There is wrap around care at the school but it is full with a waiting list. It has 40 spaces for a two form entry school.

I'm not blaming her or suggesting she'd being unreasonable. I'm blaming my idiot husband for signing without discussing with me, and myself for being so caught up in a new job and preparing ASD dd for a new school that I didn't discuss properly.

The school move has happened in a week. We viewed the school last Friday. They start on Monday.

Is there any way that one of you could get there for 5 rather than 5.15 to save £10/day? Maybe start and finish 15 mins earlier if you can drop off at 7.30 for the same money. Or drop off at 8 rather than 7.45?

This all sounds really stressful OP.

I will say that it does sound like this should hopefully be a short term crisis. You can get on the waiting list for wraparound care and with other childminders. A week to sort out reliable, well priced childcare was always going to be a huge ask. You might pay over the odds at first but hopefully in time you'll be able to find a much better alternative.

When I first became a childminder I was advised to charge a set fee before and afterschool or you get parents wanting to drop at 8.30 or collecting at 3.30 am expecting to pay for 15 mins but in reality after you’ve got coats/shoes/buggy’s sorted just to go on a school run in the wind and ran. It takes at least 15 to get everyone to school and 15 mins to get home again then that’s 30 mins before they’ve even spend any time at your house.

I did realise though that charging parents until 6pm is unrealistic so now charge for a minimum of 1.5 hours until 4.30pm and a minimum of 1 hour in the morning from 8am until 9am. Although doors at the school open at 8.45am and close at 8.55am if it wasn’t for taking the minded children to school I wouldn’t have needed to leave the house so that’s why I charge until 9am and from 3pm

It doesn't matter we drop off in the morning it is a flat fee, even after 8am. After school we would have to pick up at 5 one day because she needs to take her own children somewhere and the price was still the same.

We haven't used a childminder since my daughter was 3 (and went to school nursery) and she didn't do wrap around. So I just wasn't used to it.

Some of these posts are

'They're a business and they really don't care that you're seeing so little of your own earnings. It sucks but that's how it is.' especially made me feel sad.

Childminders are self employed, they do run a business and they deserve a decent salary just as much as anyone. It's very hard work. These businesses and services are what enable many working parents to go out to work, and they deserve respect for what they do.

Good childcare is worth its weight in gold.

OP if you’ve been looking for a nanny, but just haven’t found any one yet, you should know that it will cost you a lot more than £50.

I think it is related to all the stress, the lack of feeling of choice of childcare. Regardless of cost she wouldn't be my first choice. I can't exactly tell you why, she seems lovely. She lives at good 20-30mins walk from school, not a long way but for my ASD dd I can see this being a difficult issue for her. Then there's having to pick up at 5 one day.

I'm always worried about my dd and how anyone will manage with her. She's "high functioning" she masks mostly, but the CM seemed nervous of the ASD thing, which makes me nervous.

All of that is mixed into this.

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat I assumed that, although nannies here were advertising £8-10 an hour. I think the main issue is only wanting 3 hours a day, split up which isn't very attractive or workable hours for someone.

Am the cms and nab he’s round here charge the same as nursery £12 ph.

@IntentsAndPorpoises finding a nanny who only wants to work 3 hours a day will be tricky though

Nightmare

Childcare issues are beyond stressful

Do you have a neighbour with a student on gap year or anything you could use for a few weeks or family?

Have you tried a nannpy agency? There are people who will do after school and wrap around only. We found a nanny share where the main family had a pre schooler and one at the school so we tagged on to the wrap around bit.

Locally the most expensive outstanding day nursery is £45-52, for a whole day including food. The higher price is for 7.30 until 6. Another CM who lives much closer is £4.20 an hour including breakfast and tea. But she doesn't have space on all the days we need.

I get that it's a seller's market due to the shortage of care.

Re a nanny- you may find the ones who will do before and after school are slightly more casual, and you’d have more luck asking on a local FB group or [apologies] local Netmums pages. I know a few in my area, and they do, for e.g. cleaning jobs or looking after an elderly person during the day, then school pick up for someone later. Don’t discount these people - the ones I know are amazing with children, and very responsible.

BeekyChitch Wed 06-Feb-19 19:11:26

"she could take it further but do you really think a CM would go to those lengths? I really don't think so.Just tell her you're really sorry but you won't be using her services."

Why wouldn't she, childminders pay to get legal cover annually for fighting just this type of thing so its not going to cost her anything. If she accepted the work and turned other work away she would be out of pocket so may well hand it to her legal team.

Have you checked to see if you can Clai, some of the fees back ?

Childminders are limited in the number of spaces that they can fill 3 under 5 and 3 under 8 (they also obviously have to factor in things like room in cars and parents who may say they are collecting everyday at 2.30 but run late effectively meaning unexpected children need to go in cars), this means that they only have so many spaces to sell. If a child goes home at say 4pm she cant go back and fill up on another school child between 4 and closing time so she either refuses children out right as the hours wanted are not viable or makes a sessional charge that pays for the space a child is taking. Similarly in the morning a child arriving 5 minutes before the school run would cost the child-minder the time between opening hours and arrival time so they tend to sell the session time regardless of attendance. Its not money grabbing its economics either you fill up the whole space available or you cant run your business.
With many childminders earning less than minimum wage after costs its the only way to survive.
School clubs tend to run with a much higher pupil/adult ratio 0urs is 1 to 15 or 20, they have minimal overheads as the school tends to run it and don't pay rent, heating is already on etc. food tends to be subsidised (ours gets cereal from Nestles free) and buy milk in bulk or do 1 slice of toast from Economy loaves brought in bulk no spread. There is no way a childminder could compete on the price they charge £2.50 a morning. But the clubs were originally set up for kids who came to school hungry not working parents.

Arnoldillo Wed 06-Feb-19 22:33:08

"Agree that high flat fees for wraparound are common for childminders and you do just have to suck it up. They're a business and they really don't care that you're seeing so little of your own earnings. It sucks but that's how it is."

Don't forget that what you pay is not what they earn if a childmidner receives £15 an hour from 3 clients at least £5 goes on expenses like food (how much does 1 child eat in a cooked dinner, and after school snack... tonnes....), insurance, activities, training, consumables like loo paper, maintenance (3 plumbers this year due to loo roll blockages from 8 year olds). Then they pay the normal deductions, on top of that there will be times when they are open but not full and when they have funded children who in some areas are paying more than £1.50 less than the normal regional rate per hour....the government tell us that we should make up this shortfall by charging more for non funded children's hours including sessional fees.

Your child is a massive responsibility to keep safe and educate not just care for regulations mean once they go home paperwork out of hours has to be done on each child (under 5) its not just the hours that the children are there that make up the childcare work.

I'm certainly not insinuating she's money grabbing. Although she is considerably more expensive than other childminders around here.

She was not including food in that price, we would have to provide a pack up for them for after school. I have spoken to her and we've worked something out.

The wrap around at the school is a private business that rents space from the school.

What we need is properly subsidised childcare like in Scandinavia.