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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Has my au pair been resonable?

65 replies

Mongui · 28/12/2018 17:47

Hi! My husband and I decided to have an au pair to look after our 7 years old son and 4 years old daughter. They are both at school. We paid a very expensive agency to source a very good au pair. She is 33. She is a foreign qualified teacher with plenty of experience. She is polite, reserve and very good with the children. We pay her a very good salary (£200 per week). She works a maximum of 25 hours a week. Occasionally she does baby-sitting but not too often, at most once a week and very often, less than that. We have a cleaner who comes 3 times a week and, as it should be, our au pair doesn't clean the house. She doesn't even clean the children's or her own bedroom. The cleaner does everything. We pay taxes, we pay holidays. We are flexible (she needs certain flexibility due to personal circumstances on certain weeks she leaves early on Fridays and work less hours on Mondays). We are considered. We include her in our family plans. In short, we go the extra mile with her because we like her and because the children really like her. We also know she is a qualified teacher and her salary reflects any such qualification.
She is being with us for 4 months and we were very happy with everything. So was she.
However, a couple of days ago she had a funny reaction and I am not sure what to think . I was in the kitchen and suddenly I heard my au pair saying in a very laud and assertive way: "hey! do not hit me!!! You are not going to hit me? Did you hear what I say??!!". Immediately she came to the kitchen with my 4 years old daughter. My au pair was visibly agitated. She said that she needed to speak to me urgently because my daughter has hit her and that was totally unacceptable. I obviously talk to my daughter in a calm and constructive fashion. I told her (in front of my au pair) that she should not hit our au pair. My daughter was very embarrassed. She is a very gentle and very considered little girl. But she is only 4. I don't know why she hit my au pair. Sometimes children do these things and it doesn't mean they are aggressive or that they don't like the person. But she is certainly not aggressive and it was the first time this has happened with my au pair.
My au pair was visibly unhappy. I asked her to forgive my daughter and in a gentle way, and to close the issue, I said: "let's be kind and gentle with each other".
I thought that would be the end of it. But a few days later, I was working from home and my au pair came to my office and, knocking the door, she said it was urgent. I thought it was something rather serious. But she said that my daughter has hit her again and that this is a red line for her, that nobody ever in her life has hit her and that she was not going to put up with any such rude behaviour, that there were limits and that this was a red line for her. She also said that she didn't like the way she sometimes looked at her, in a defiant way, which was disrespectful.
My daughter was next to her, again looking very embarrassed. I talk to her again, calmly and told her this wasn't acceptable. I promise I did my absolute best to ensure my au pair got the reassurance that this was not acceptable for me and that my daughter understood she should not behave in this way.
They both left my office, my daughter apologised to my au pair, my au pair looking rather grumpy and visibly annoyed.
As soon as they left the room where I was working, I thought that my au 33 years old pair, with 10 years of experience in primary education, who gets remunerated accordingly, who enjoys plenty of flexibility with us, who doesn't lift a finger in the house, who we include and pay in all our plans, which I found not just in a random website, but in a proper agency who charged me £1,800 to source her, was not behaving reasonably. To be totally fair to her, I would be annoyed if a 4 years old hit me. I think she was right to bring the issue to my attention. But to do it in the aggressive way she did it, I don't think it was the standards I was expecting from her.
I took a deep breath and after an hour or so, I went to speak to my au pair, very calmly, on a one to one basis. I first told her I was sorry about my daughter's behaviour. But I also told her she was just 4... My au pair was, again, very agitated and did not let me speak. She reiterated that I should know that nobody has ever hit her, that this was rather rude and that she wasn't going to stay with us with a child hitting her. She reiterated the fact that the way she looks at her sometimes is defiant, which she doesn't like. I told her that, although I understood her frustration, I would have thought that for someone of her age and experience, she would address the issue in a more mature fashion. I told her that, as much I would like it, I could not guarantee that my 4 years old daughter would not hit her again. She replied saying that she would then need to think about it.
In that moment my children appear in scene and we finished the conversation.
In short, there is a part of me that understands my au pair. Yes, it is very annoying, that is for sure. I am grateful she brought the issue to my attention. But my daughter is a very caring, good nature little girl and she is very affectionate to my au pair. My daughter is very small and thin. When my au pair says "she hits me" it wasn't anything that could hurt her. This is not to justify my daughter's behaviour but to set the scene.
I think it is not very reasonable or in fact mature of a 33 years old woman of her level of experience to kick a fuss and give me an ultimatum. Firstly, I can't promise it will not happen again. Secondly, it is really not the way to address the issue. But crucially, is this not a symptom that for whatever reason she wants to find a way out of the family and she is just trying to find an excuse? She knows when I hired her that it was extremely important for us to commit to a year of service. In fact, she told me the same applied to her.
I feel very sad for my daughter. I feel as though my au pair may not like her that much after all.
Am I overreacting? Is my au pair being reasonable?

OP posts:
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namechangedtoday15 · 28/12/2018 20:01

You say you dealt with the hitting "firmly" but you didnt. You say in your first post that you told her not to hit and to be gentle. That's not "firm". So she did it again and you accept that shes likely to do it again.

You're expecting nanny-like experience (disciplining a child, developing that relationship etc) whilst paying an au pair wage.

Agree that you need to let the au pair go but in answer to you question, yes shes been reasonable in saying she cant continue with your DD's behaviour. If your DD continues to hit, then I anticipate you'll have problems with future au pairs too.

MyPoodleisWorthTenofYou · 28/12/2018 20:30

I wouldn’t be happy having to let a child hit me for £200 a week either Hmm

Mummyshark2018 · 28/12/2018 20:33

Is the hitting new? I'm just wondering if you're at home and she wants your and not au pairs attention? What have you discussed with au pair about discipline? Does she feel that there are blurred lines and she can't enforce anything? Either way I agree that how she reacted seems a bit immature and inexperienced.

Mummyshark2018 · 28/12/2018 20:36

@MyPoodleisWorthTenofYou
Obviously, Nobody should be hit, but tbf nursery workers get a lot more and for a lot less money /benefits (for 25 hours a week).

MadeForThis · 28/12/2018 20:55

Being an Au Pair at 33 is strange.

Maybe she is because she can't cop with being a mainstream teacher. Maybe due to reactions like this.

Hitting isn't acceptable. But dd is 4. She's acting as if she's abusive.

namechangedtoday15 · 28/12/2018 21:13

It's a bit pointless saying shes 33 and that's too old to be an au pair. The OP hired her knowing she was 33.

MiniMum97 · 28/12/2018 21:46

She sounds weird. I'd get rid.

Anyone looking after a child needs to be able to discipline them appropriately imo. I would expect someone with teaching experience to be able to do this. It's a very weird reaction for her to be so personally offended by a child hitting. Children do hit until they are told not to, repeatedly. It takes a while of reinforcement usually which is why I expect you can't guarantee that she won't hit again! And the defiant look thing is just bizarre. What child isn't defiant at times! Are you sure she has definitely worked with children before? Why is she being an au pair and not teaching?

Mongui · 28/12/2018 23:33

Thanks lovely mothers. Why is she an au pair at the age of 33 and not a nanny? Good question and one we discussed with her at the interview and also with the agency.
My au pair arrived to England last summer with a firm intention to have an easy job as an an au pair for a year and live with a family for a year. She very intentionally wanted to be an au pair for a year because she needed a break from intense teaching at her country and because she would like to settle in England. In fact we already discussed that if she would like to work as a nanny next year for us we would be opened to it as she is keen.
She is a lovely person but I sensed that after 10 years in the classrooms she was bordering a depression and needed a break. In addition her boyfriend left her just went they were about to get married.
So this explains why she has deliberately chosen to be an au pair for a year.
She is definitely a teacher. The agency checked her credentials and I can tell she is a teacher.
She has always told me she is very happy with us. And so we are with her. But I suspect she has suffered from depression in the past. I know for a fact her sister suffers from depression. There are days she is super happy. And great with the children. She really is. But there are other days that she hardly leaves the house. In fact, many. I am concerned that this reaction may be indicative of something probably more complex.
A few weeks ago she told me that my daughter's teacher talk to her to say that my daughter's behaviour in the last few weeks in the classroom has been really bad, that she doesn't listen and that she can be difficult.
I was very concerned and I arranged to see her teacher. To my total surprise the teacher didn't even know what I was talking about when I first informed her of the message delivered by my au pair. When she finally remembered, she told me there was nothing to be worried about, that she has observed that my daughter was tired but that was the case with most of them because it was the end of the term. She told me how lovely she was and how much she enjoys school and reassured me there were not behaviour issues with her.
I forgot about it and was pleased with the news. But now that I think about it, my au pair delivered a very negative message and clearly told me the teachers were not happy with her behaviour.
The teacher told me a complete different story.
It is hard to believe that my sweet, reserved, polite au pair has targeted my daughter. Or is she depressed? I really don't know what to think.
I do like her by the way. I feel a duty of care towards her. But this is odd..

OP posts:
colditz · 29/12/2018 12:03

oh I do so love a massive drip feed

Mongui · 29/12/2018 13:01

Colditz, are you trying to be funny? Because you are not.
Anyway, to all the lovely people who has expressed their views, thank you very much. Some of the things you have said have made me think and I will take some of the advice onboard.
As for you Colditz, may be you can refine your sense of humour and post something funny rather than rude next time you post something on Mumsnet.

OP posts:
colditz · 29/12/2018 14:05

No, I'm not "trying to be funny", you have posted about your Au Pair and then, once you have answers, you've THEN posted a load of relevant details about why you're right and everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong.

It's called " a massive drip feed" as you've kept us on an information diet
until you've got the answers you want, and is poor form.

If you perceive being called out for ridiculous bullshit as rude, you're going to find this website rude, and probably is the reason you're disliking your poor Au Pair right now.

perroy · 29/12/2018 16:45

Why have you not asked your daughter why she is hitting. I would be very concerned if my otherwise considerate and gentle child started showing a different pattern of behaviour.

namechangedtoday15 · 29/12/2018 17:44

Complete drip feed.

Mongui · 29/12/2018 17:55

Perroy, you are right and this is what it doesn't stuck up. My husband and I asked my daughter why she did that. She said she didn't know, that she didn't want to hurt her that she was playing... of course we said that hitting is not playing and that if she continues like this the au pair will leave and she then looked very sad and concerned.
Another thing we did was to ask my son, he is 7 and in one of the two occasions this has happened he was present. He told me that he didn't even realise that my daughter has hit our au pair. This is not to suggest our au pair is making it up by any means...
My concern here is that my instinct tells me something is wrong with our au pair. Depression? Anxiety? I don't know... And I would like to support her. She doesn't have a family and i would like to be a family for her. She has a complicated family story back home and came to England "running away" from her own situation back home. I reiterate, she really is lovely and sweet. And smart. But the debate I have is that I have put together some of the things and comments she has made about my daughter and I am unfortunately beginning to wonder whether she likes her.
It is so difficult to explain in a short post but when the hitting incident happened, I had a very strong feeling that there is something here... I don't know what and I can't ask her to leave based on a feeling. In fact, the opposite. I want this to work. I want to help her and support her. But, am I being blind here?
Sorry about going on. The issue concerns me. In fact this is my first ever post in Mumsnet...
thanks lovely people..

OP posts:
myrtleWilson · 29/12/2018 18:01

So you put the issue of hitting on the Au Pair as far as your DD is concerned? Not "we don't hit" "Mommy does not like it when you hit" but "the au pair will leave" - not exactly stepping up to the plate there are you?

Mongui · 29/12/2018 19:03

I must be a very bad communicator because this is not at all the point I am trying to make. I tried to say that we talk to our daughter and tried to tell her that she should not hit the au pair in the best possible way we could or know.
But what I am trying to say (may be not successfully) that beyond the incident, there is something here, with our au pair, which is not quite right. I tried to say that it feels as though she may have problems, and my concern here is to find the best possible solution for all.

OP posts:
Honeyroar · 29/12/2018 19:32

So your au pair is upset because your daughter is biting her, but you're gently doing very little about it and now trying to blame your au pair's mental health rather than facing up to facts that your daughter is misbehaving. I was an au pair. Sometimes I think that I had a much more balanced view of the children than the parents. One little boy used to hit and swear. His mother made excuses for him all the time.

PurpleNailVarnish · 29/12/2018 19:52

This is not to suggest our au pair is making it up by any means...

This reads as that's exactly what you're suggesting Mongui and I wonder whether that's why you didn't adequately discipline your DD for hitting the first time.

Nobody deserves to be hit in the course of their work. In some jobs there's an expectation that employees might be assaulted ie psychiatric nurse or police officer but it's still not acceptable. An Au Pair might be hit by a child, it's not nice but it's not unexpected either. Twice demonstrates that any action you took to curtail this the first time didn't work.

Your Au Pair may be fed up because she thinks she hasn't been believed.

She may be homesick yes, even at the age of 33

She may be worrying about her complex situation back home. If she's come here to be an Au Pair to get away from her home situation it may be that she's found as many do that you can run away but you still take your problems with you. Rather than being depressed she may be processing the events from back home.

It may be that she was a teacher in a country where children are expected to sit quietly and poor behaviour, even minor poor behaviour, isn't tolerated. A teacher coming out to talk to the person collecting a child could be a big deal in her home country so she misinterpreted the significance, many countries don't have the same parent/teacher interaction that we do here.

Having been a teacher doesn't guarantee that someone will be a good Au Pair, it's a very different career and dynamic.

You must listen to your DD as you have been, hitting someone once isn't ok, but it happens. Twice is unacceptable.

Also listen to your Au Pair. There are lots of possible reasons for her actions, hence all of the 'maybes' in this post. If she isn't a fit for your family the kindest thing all round is to find someone else.

llangennith · 29/12/2018 20:58

OP. you should be looking for the best solution for YOUR CHILD not the best solution for everyone. Send the au pair packing now.

middleeasternpromise · 29/12/2018 21:04

Oh dear o dear - an au pair who is not an au pair; a child behaving apparently out of character with no one else experiencing the same issues?

What ever you are paying this lady this is not a true au pair arrangement. The au pair scheme was about families offering a host accommodation arrangement to younger people who want to learn a language and experience the culture of a new country. They are usually moving from living with their own family and therefore in need of the support and help living away from home which a host family can offer - in return for living as part of the family food, bills etc they offer a limited amount of help in the home either in the form of supervising older children for a few hours at a time or pet care/ sometimes light household help. From what you say you have upped the money and took an adult in who really wouldn't be suited to the au pair scheme. When you bring in someone who has previously been an independent career level person - this will feel like a very stifling arrangement living in someones family home at their beck and call. You may well be bending over backwards to not make her feel like that but none the less if she sometimes 'hardly leaves the house' and only has the children to look after before and after school its no wonder you are starting to wonder how this is a working arrangement. All my au pairs were desperate to be out socializing as soon as I was home, some of them I never saw from Friday evening till the early hours of monday morning (and good for them I say).

Your au pair sounds like shes experiencing gilded cage syndrome and your daughter is somehow not connecting with her or in fact over connecting to her but either way its not working. At that age she isn't going to offer a big sister/play mate relationship especially where shes held the role of a teacher before and will have an expectation of how children should and shouldn't interact with her. I agree with others - this isn't possibly anyone's fault as such but just a mismatch of needs and goals. Why did you want someone so different from the usual au pair profile?

As for your interest in the woman's mental health and difficult personal life experiences - I think you might want to be very careful about how much 'you want to help' Au pair arrangements are complex enough to make work at the best of times without the whole set up being complicated with you supporting a 30 year old woman with her depression and relationship break ups. Would you not be better off with a local live out option? you say you don't need lots of night time baby sitting so I just wonder why you have opted for a live in arrangement at all?

Good luck with it.

Mongui · 29/12/2018 21:56

Middleeasternpromise, spot on. I don't think is my fault, my 4 years old daughter or my au pair. It is simply not working.
Yes she is an unusual type of au pair, but we were honest with each other. She took the job because she wanted to be an au pair and we offer her the job being aware she was 33 and needed a degree of flexibility. Anyway all parties acted in good faith and if it doesn't work no hard feelings but probably best for all to find alternative arrangements.
Thanks to those in this post who has given me constructive and useful advice.
END

OP posts:
blueshoes · 29/12/2018 22:34

Aupairs who take up the role to run away from something in their personal situation often don't work out because something will spill over when living under someone else's roof doing childcare, which is a disorientating and intense experience.

All my aupairs who have suspected or admitted mental health issues went back or left after maximum 4 months. In your aupair's case, it seems to be exacerbated by the fact that a teaching role is formal (usually with older children that are required to listen) and your dd is 4 (and really only just needs cuddles and care).

There is something odd about what this aupair says (negative) which is inconsistent with others' usual behaviour (your dd and teacher's perception). Whatever is going on, you don't want her to be looking after your dd.

I would probably try to move her on soon. You don't need to pay so much to an agency to find an aupair. Try to avoid over-qualified aupairs. I used to use the aupairworld website. It is a bit of hit and miss so best not to focus too much on any particular candidate or getting it right on the first try. Hopefully, you can find someone more outgoing who will get a lot of benefit from living with a family and going out and exploring a different country. You should not have any problem as you are paying well above market for easy hours and no housework.

TheNewYear · 29/12/2018 22:55

Whether you’ve employed this woman as an au pair or not, the fact remains she really isn’t one considering her age and experience and it’s not working out with your DD. If your DD hitting is a new thing, then I agree you need to look into the reason behind it and I don’t think your au pair is in the wrong to want a job where she is not hit - especially since, whatever you might think to the contrary, she is not well paid and does not have good perks currently.

mumsastudent · 29/12/2018 23:07

strange woman - if I were looking after your dc I might talk to you about the hit but only to discuss with you how I/we should approach how we jointly deal with it - as for defiant looks for crying out loud the kid is 4 not 14!

mumsastudent · 29/12/2018 23:09

one thing that did happen from time to time when I told dc off was they might say "I am telling mum" to which I replied "not before me -do you want me to ring her now?" (calling bluff)