Combination childcare???

[Beagle840]

Hi ladies

I need to return to work when DD is 1 and I had planned to leave her with a childminder I know who is very good, takes kids out most days and kids develop well with her. However, the CM works alone and will also be looking after a 9 month old baby 2 days a week, in addition to two 3 year old children and several older children after school.

I'm a bit concerned that on the days the younger baby is there, this could be too much for one person and that DD may not get enough attention. I'm also concerned about how the CM will manage outings and school pick ups with 2 babies who will both need pushchairs (or DD can walk but obviously not far and not very fast) as well as two 3 year olds. The afternoons may be a bit overwhelming for DD too with so many children in a relatively small space.

I know of a really lovely little nursery which has availability for the 2 days in question, great facilities, low staff turnover, 1:3 care ratio and I know kids who go there develop close bonds with one key person, as I know kids who have been there and a couple of the staff. I am wondering whether to send DD to CM 2 days a week when she doesn't have the other baby and to nursery the other 2 days that I will be working.

My options are:

A) 2 days CM, 2 days nursery as above. Pros - DD gets varied experience, outings 2 days a week and only 2 afternoons a week in the more crowded environment of CM. Cons- may result in less close bonds in both settings (but I may be overthinking this), still have 2 afternoons in crowded CM environment

B) 4 days CM. Pros - outings, mixing with older kids. Cons - less attention/difficulties with outings when other baby there and lots of children in the afternoons with only 1 adult, limited space for play in afternoons due to number of kids

C) 4 days nursery. Pros - no school run, much better carer to child ratios consistently throughout the day. Cons - far fewer outings, most expensive option but not by much.

I would be really interested to hear the opinions of other mums please! I am leaning towards option A but as a first timer, I'm very open to suggestions. Thanks in advance.

Oh one more thing I meant to include was that doing a combination would allow me to assess how happy DD seems to be in each setting and if she has a clear preference, I could swap to using that setting for all days.

Does she have all 4 at once? Because cm ratios are also 1:3 unless either of the 3 yr olds are accessing their 30 funded hours at a school nursery.

DS has a childminder and a nursery and it works fine for us.

However agree with above the ratios sound wrong

My eldest was part time with a childminder till 3 then in nursery. Her younger brother started part time with childminder, but when we needed him to go full time (at just over a year IIRC), we split the week 3 days childminder / 2 days nursery. I think we went to full time nursery around age 3. Worked fine for us.

Hi thanks for the replies. At least one of the 3 year olds also get 30 hours nursery split over the full year rather than just term time. I know the legal ratios are the same and I trust CM so am sure she will not be exceeding those. I only say the nursery ratios are better because in that nursery it is 1 carer to 3 under 2 year olds and no older children as they are split into different classes. Good to hear the combination approach can work.

Hmm. Seems like she IS exceeding the ratios though...

Anyway, children are very adaptable and whatever decision you make will be fine. It really will.

Im guessing she has access to a double buggy?
So in the day she will have 3 children between 8.50am and 3.30 pm?

Children learn and develop naturally in a family environment where mixed ages are the norm and they can learn from older children and older ones learn to be caring nurturing etc so when adults they reflect this with their own children. Having up to 6 children is manageable and can meet the needs and get outstanding grades even in the school holidays but to a parent particularly of a young child they can not imagine how it can be done. In reality what you are saying is an issue happens more regularly in nurseries where staff just have to be on site I've seen many when I've been working where for large parts of the day rooms have been left 1 to 6 babies. Even if the building is in ratio.

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat - the ratios are no longer as simple as that and it is possible to have higher if for example an existing customer has need of extra days, a baby is born, if it is in the interests of the child, but it must be risk assessed, the cm must be able to meet the needs of all in their care, and it must not be a permanent change ie if you make exception for 1 reason you can't then automatically replace with a new child when that one leaves. You also still must have the space.

It is not clear if the op means that there are more children all day as in under 5's or its the school children she objects too.

jannier I’m well aware of the ratios thanks. None of those situations apply since the OP’s child hasn’t started yet, her child will be the additional one.

Sorry I didn't make it clearer but the reason cm will have the younger baby is because after she agreed to take DD on, one of her existing customers (the mum of one of the 3 year olds) told her she was pregnant again and so she can apparently take on the new baby as an additional child.

As I understand it, cm will have DD who will be 1 and the other baby all day and the two 3 year olds before/after nursery and will also get some over 5 year olds after school. I don't object to DD mixing with older kids, she will love that. I am just thinking having two babies, two 3 year olds and the older kids all together in the after school period is a lot for one person working alone and must lead to a bit of a cramped environment!

Have you checked that the cm would be happy to have dd for only two days? She may be banking on filling all the spaces with you.

Not yet Mouse but I'm thinking she would probably be ok with it as the places are full anyway, she has 1 extra with both babies.

We split childcare with dd. 3 days childminder and 2 at nursery. She thrives in both environments. Childminder gave her more 1:1 time and freedom to choose activities whereas nursery provided more children to interact with and more structure.

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat Mon 29-Oct-18 14:01:32

"jannier I’m well aware of the ratios thanks. None of those situations apply since the OP’s child hasn’t started yet, her child will be the additional one."......and there it comes the younger baby is a later sibling.....Thank you for Thanking me but in putting it out there we now have the explanation and hey ho the cm is not breaking regulations......which proves you shouldn't jump to conclusions.

So your baby is over 1 and the new baby is under 1, then there are 2 3 year olds who will be at nursery - do they attend the same nursery sessions or swop over?
Depending on her abilities and experience perfectly possible to meet everyone's needs, I've had children removed from nursery for going backwards and returned full time so that they can continue making progress. Outstanding number 3, lead cm , A1 assessor, La quality improvement panel member working with nurseries to improve their standards.

I think the CM has too many very young children to look after, but I do know how very skilled they usually are at coping with these numbers.

But you need to consider that if the CM was ill, or needed a holiday, you would be stuck. A nursery would, presumably, always be open. With a CM, you have to take account of the other adults that might visit the CM during the day (presumably that would be a good thing as far as adult to child ratios was concerned, though), or the fact that she might get a long phone call - there are all sorts of things that might happen in someone's own home.

The main reason that I preferred a nursery for my sons was that a child minder could be on her own all day, and what if she has a bad day? At a nursery, if one of the carers is feeling a bit grumpy or short-tempered, the others can take over for a while, and there is always someone for the adults to share their concerns with.

What also mattered to me, rather than outings, was that there was plenty of outdoor space to play in, and the nurseries all had that. I didn't mind so much about outings, because when the children were at nursery, they were 'out', in that they were not at home.

I had two different CMs for one son for about a year in total, and I was very impressed with both. I also sent two sons to nursery, one when he was 6 months old, and four of my grandchildren also went to nurseries that I collected them from, so I've seen a lot of different set-ups. They were all wonderful, lovely places, staffed by dedicated, imaginative, caring, hard-working people.

As another poster said, I'm sure your child will be fine, whatever you choose, and you're lucky to have such great options! .

Actually jannier I still disagree. The OP’s child hasn’t started. They haven’t even agreed days yet. So since the cm knows she is full right now, she shouldn’t be taking on OP’s child.

I know from experience that there are a lot of cms that think you can bend the rules to suit but they are there for a reason. Safety of the children and this is clearly a problem the OP is worried about.

Beagle840

On your original questions......

IME I’d say the children I’ve had that had thrived most tend to be those who’ve used a combination of childcare types: childminder plus a group provision such as nursery or preschool. That’s if they use the cm for actual daycare, not just as a taxi service around the times nursery doesn’t want them.

Whatever you choose, make sure you do the groundwork to prepare your daughter. They can struggle to settle at 1yo, particularly as that usually coincides with mum’s return to work. Most mums understandably want to spend maximum time with baby during maternity leave but that does nothing to help baby when you go back to work. She needs to get used to being without mum quite a bit.

Also see if you can develop routines which will fit with those of the childcare providers: sleeps, mealtimes, etc. . Reducing the degree of change will help your daughter no end.

Thanks ladies. I am going to go ahead with the combination of cm and nursery and reassess in a few months' time. I agree with Solo, I'm in a very lucky position as both cm and nursery are wonderful.

Just for clarity on ratios, the expectation is that DD will be starting before the younger baby, which I presume is why the younger one will be classed as the additional one. I have known cm for years and she is very professional so I am certain she won't be breaking the rules! With combination childcare it won't be an issue though.

Thanks again everyone .

"Nursery versus childminder- which is best?" is invariably a futile debate, and I’m not seeking to further it here.

But it is worth pointing out that some common misconceptions have arisen on this thread.

All parents need a back-up plan for childcare, even if it just means having the backbone to stand up for their employment rights in an emergency. It’s simply not correct to suggest that nurseries never close. IME they do close at very short notice, all too often, and then there are a lot of parents desperately seeking an alternative.

The extra staff on hand at a nursery can become a problem rather than an asset if the attitude/culture isn’t right. It’s very easy to avoid, say, changing a soiled nappy if there are other people around and everyone thinks it’s someone else’s responsibility (an aspect of group psychology that has been proven by several scientific studies.) A childminder doesn’t have that excuse and so s/he automatically accepts the responsibility without dispute.

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat - Ofsted have confirmed that they don't know where the new business only idea has come from they have a list of examples however it is not exhaustive but just examples - see the Big conversation articles being held between Ofsted, Pacey and Childminders re inspection and EYFS guidelines.
I am not saying that being over ratio is ideal but it can be done and is done in every nursery where 3 year old ratios are much higher than 1 to 4 with many rooms regularly being left 1 to 8 and if a qualifies teacher 1 to 13.
It is also a sited exception that 3 year olds attending school nursery for 30 hours can be treated as 5 year olds for ratio.

Really??!!

We do combined and it works for us.

DS is doing two set days each week at nursery plus two flexible days with CM

CM is wonderful and only has my ds plus her own children who are all in FT school. He gets amazing 1:1 while the older ones are in school and she is flexible to fit around my lectures/work so we agree which dates each term as I get my timetable.

She will also pick up the odd extra day if I’ve got meetings or training.

Nursery is good as it’s year round provision and stills runs if workers are ill etc (not had CM illness yet)

DS adores being at CM but not so much at nursery - I suspect as he becomes more independent he will thrive in the busier setting too