Leaving primary school children in car with toddler

[TheOrigBrave]

I am new to using a childminder.

My son is 9 and is picked up from school by the CM and taken to her home. On the way back she picks up other children and I understand that she leaves the children in the car with a toddler.

This doesn't sound safe to me. I don't think her charges should be responsible for a toddler (or any of the other children for that matter) and if that was my toddler I would be appalled to learn he/she was being left. Are there exemptions e.g if the car is parked in a school car park rather than by the side of the road, or if it's less than a certain time?
I'm thinking there aren't exceptions - what if the baby is sick, what if someone bangs into the car, what if one of the kids gives the baby something and it chokes. Surely there must always be an adult present.

Children must be in the childminders sight or hearing at all times, so depends on how far away from the car she is.
If you feel concerned why not ask her?

Thank you. I can have a gentle word with my son to see whether he thinks the CM can see or hear him.

Of course I can ask her, but if there's no need then I that would be better.

Yes to in sight or hearing. If she leaves them in the car by the gate, as she stands by the gate (for example), then it's safer for them to stay in the car than get out.

She shouldn't mind being asked, if she's not doing anything wrong. I was asked about leaving children in the car by a parent and was able to explain that my assistant was in the car with them and all was fine. Parents had just reported to her that I'd left them while collecting another one.

Best to ask her and let her know you aren’t happy with the situation. FWIW I wouldn’t leave school age dc in the car if I was childminding them. Just seems a bit unprofessional to me, but I’m prepared to be told iabu.
How far away I’d the car from where she is going. She should be within sight or hearing at all times, so I can see at some schools, this could be feasible, at our school it wouldn’t be at all.

Thanks for the info. As I said, I'm new to using CMs (many years of other childcare though). I talked to DS to clarify where CM went to collect the other child/ren and I am reassured that she is always in sight and/or ear shot. It was useful to know the questions to ask him.

The other consideration is her motor insurance. Her policy might be invalidated by leaving the children alone in the car which could in turn put her in breach of childcare regulations. But you’d need to ask her directly if you could inspect the insurance schedule, which you might’ve find awkward.

It depends how far away from the car your childminder is. When I collect my daughter from club I can park right outside. I leave the kids in the car but I'm literally stood right by the car and often chatting to the kids through the window. I just make myself seen so my daughter can come out to me. A passerby on the other side of the car may presume the kids are by themselves if they don't spot me on the other side of it. As long as the kids are within sight or hearing I don't see the problem. Just have a chat with your childminder as she may be doing something similar.

I talked to my son earlier in the week (he's 9 so quite able to accurately explain the situation) and I am reassured that everything is fine.

If he's now reassured you after a chat I'm puzzled that you didn't have the chat straight away and then if not happy talked to your cm and then if not happy asked for opinions. Its this sort of post that gives the profession a bad reputation.

eh?
I had a concern.
I asked an internet forum for advice. I got the info I needed to ask my son the right questions.
I asked him. He replied. I had no need to talk to the CM. No need to put her in a defensive position.

Do CMs have a bad reputation?

I see people asking opinions on all sorts of childcare issues BEFORE talking to the carer/nursery/CM.

When your child tells you something you generally ask for more details at the start similarly if a gossip tells you something you generally talk to your child about what normally happens and then ask subtle questions so you have a clear picture. By immediately asking on a post readers get the impression that childminders are doing this sort of thing as a norm and someone invariable pipes up with a should use a nursery comment reinforcing the false idea that they are inherently better.
Its no different to when a child says another was mean at school you ask questions like what happened what was going on before etc not leap to the omg lo is being bullied and get posting before going back to find out that it was actually an I was being naughty and x told on me scenario.

generally talk to your child about what normally happens

THIS is the point. I didn't know what normally happens, so I asked here and then talked to my child.

I didn't know that the rules state that as long as the CM is in ear or eye shot then it's OK. It didn't occur to me to ask that of my child. As I said, I really have no experience of my child being driven around by a carer.

I didn't leap to any conclusion - with the info he initially gave me I felt it was unsafe, but rather than grill him w/o knowing what questions to ask, I asked here. I didn't want him to feel that I was not happy with his care until I had all the facts myself.

Is there a feeling among CMs that people/parents talk about their care behind their back rather than just talk to them?

As a general observation, jannier has a point.. mumsnet sees a lot of CM bashing; too many mums who rush to message boards instead of having grown up face to face with their childcare provider; and too many people jumping in to say all CMs (or nurseries for that matter) are inherently bad because they had on3 bad experience.

In mitigation, I must add that I agree with the OP that she has been very reasonable and avoided rushing to judgment.

Perhaps this specific case has got lost in the broader issue?

It would certainly be worth getting hold of the EYFS regulations. They are freely available as an Ofsted download. Every parent using childcare should do this, as it represents the 'rulebook'. After all, you wouldn’t invest in a car and driving lessons then never read the Highway Code, would you?

I don’t be willing to bet that 95%+ of 'problems' and 'concerns' on this message board wouldn’t be posted if the client parent read and understood their contract, the childcare regulations and the provider's policies.

Thanks boojum
I honestly had no idea there was a lot of CM bashing in MN.

You're right, it is my responsibility to have read my CM's T&Cs and all the legal stuff and perhaps I have got lax with that having used nursery care for both my children (now 19 an 9) for many years.

Having sweated the small stuff about baby and toddler care, I guess I've become more (too?) relaxed about leaving my son for one afternoon a week with a CM. You come off the boil a bit once your child gets to a certain age (secondary) and you have no clue who they're getting in cars with or who their friends are.

I suspect about 50% of threads in MN could have been resolved if OPs looked on Google or did some research first.