CM CLUB:Any suggestions on how to approach this?

[PinkChick]

some of you will know i have had probs with a mindee i have been looking after for 9 months now.
she was very distruptive, lashing out etc, but then i noticed she was either not listening or had probs with hearing, i ruled the latter out but the thread got nasty so i left it.
now, the last few weeks, people we have been in contact with to play(playgroups etc) have been asking me 'whats wrong with her' and does she have SN'
she has big problems communicating to anyone, if asked what she said, what she wants, why she did something, basically asking her to repeat what she had said if i hadnt heard, everything is answered 'i dont know', ask her why she hit xxx, she doesnt know, what did she just say?..she doesnt know?

my own dd is just a bit older but was quite advanced so dont compare, but i do have a 15 month old who understands requests so much more.

she seems to not take in what you have said, not be able to put it into actions, not understand what you are asking even in the simplest of tasks.

today, i asked her to pick up the plastic bag that xxx was stood next to(they were tidying up their toys), she looked at me blankly, i said the plastic bagxxx, the one near xxx feet can you pick it up?, she looked in a different direction of the room...i said xxx, look at xxxx, look at his feet, can you see the bag?, can you pick it up and put it away please?..she walked past xxx and went and picked up a handbag from the other side of room?
the other adult in the room looked blankly at me and asked if she had hearing problems?
i dont know what to think, i have noticed this many times and said to her parents that she seems like shes in a world of her own sometimes trying to be tactful, but they just smile and offer no suggestion.
one of my first questions when she started was does your child have any sn i need to know about and they said def not, so am stuck!

Hi PinkChick
Reading your message I have to say that I can see some similarities with my own DS who has Dyspraxia, but there would have to be lots of other things going on to make that a possible explanation. Does this mindee have good gross and fine motor skills? does she have reasonable body awareness, ie does she know when her mouth/nose needs wiping when she needs to go to the loo etc? Sorry I don't know the age of this child so these questions may not be relevant (if she is very young etc)

how about asking if she follows directions at home. Being what yoiu say as a world of her own can be autism but it should come with lots of other nmarkers but it is one to be aware of (you havent said some of the other markers yet)

mindee is almost 4.
well shes not majorly into routines, shes seems very vacant most of the time, she does have various imaginary freinds, but i dont class this as being an issue(i think its more down to parents splitting up, she speaks about one of them as though its a father figure)
she will play in little world of her own, even with my other mindees and acts out scenarios using diff voices, pretending shes diff people etc, but even when other children speak to her most of the time she just looks blankly at them or looks like she hasnt heard them??
one of her 'things' more recently is she cries and says a particular phrase(which i wont say incase this links to her), even when someone just says hello to her, or if i ask her not to do something..tonight she was crying when her father collected her, because she said i had done 'this thing' when i asked her not to draw on books(reading ones)!?

hi all, something else i thought may be of some use, she sleeps oike there is no tomorrw, we have just been out and as we wer near busy road and it was long walk i took buggy and mindee got in on way home, she fell straight asleep, she tells me all the time recently that shes tired(but her parents DO let me know if shes had a late night and TBH, theyre not too often), she'll be unaware of things right in front of her and walk into them(like this morning, we were coming out of a room and i held the door open and said come on then, lets go back out, other mindee came out, but this mindee stood blankly looking into room, then turned to me and walked into door?...
im at a loss and am getting concerned now as shes due to go to school soon and dont want her being singled out.

Have you broached the subject with the parents yet and does she go to pre-school? I've got a friend whose ds clearly has some learning dificulties and although I can see it and some of my other friends can see it, the parents are ignoring it. He is at pre-school and they have suggested they take him to the doctor about the way he walks, but the parents have decided that its just habit and he doesn't do it anymore, so haven't taken him. I know he still does it, but tbh, I can't be the one to tell her what I think. I know as the OFSTED registered person, you probably should say something, but how? Its an impossible situation really isn't it? I think you are going to have to leave it to the school to pick up when she gets there. Have you done any special courses, that make you an authority on it? I'm not having a go at you obviously, you know I wouldn't do that, I'm just thinking of what the parents might say to you if you talk to them. Obviously parents don't want to hear anything bad about their lo's, especially from someone as lowly as a cm! You know I'm a cm and I'm only saying what a lot of non-cm's would say about us in that situation!

I can't advise as I have no idea but just wanted to ask if she seems better on 1:1 rather than in a group? A family member of ours has Aspergers and she finds it very difficult in group situations - she's MUCH older than 4 though.

I must admit it sounds like there's a problem but what can be done if the parents don't want to hear it? Every parent is different and I would DEFINITELY want to be told if someone thought something was wrong. I'd rather check with the Dr and it be a waste of time than to ignore something that might need addressing HOWEVER I know not all parents feel the same.

Hard one

with her saying 'I don't know' to your questions, I think that could be down to her simply not having the language to articulate the subtleties of what she needs to say. If she doesn't get spoken to as an 'equal' at home or if her parents are not articulate then this might just take her some time to catch up with but school might help her there. It could be a defense mechanism that she uses to get you off her back, if you know what I mean!

The dreaminess and not seeming to understand requests; hmm, I know what you mean, perhaps it could indicate some sort of congitive delay or issue....then again, perhaps not, some kids are just dreamy, it also sounds that she is very imaginative, you describe her playing out little scenarios, imaginary friends, etc; signs of a rich 'internal' life, which is great, and maybe explains why she doesn't respond to well to requests?

So I see your dilemma; could or couldn't be a problem. Personally, I don't think from what you've put here, that there's anything that would make me ask the parents to get her checked in any way. Give it a while I think and keep an open mind.

when you mention the speech i have noticed today and recently that a lot of her words are muddles or are words that just 'sound' like the word she means..this may just be a natural speech devlopment for 'some' children like my dd had probs with stammering for a while?..mindee says things like 'Shoshed' for sausage, 'hanibals' for animals, 'len', 'lat', 'lis' for then, that this.
i cant judge her sppech by my dd as she was quite advanced albeit for the temp stammer, but for an almost 4yr old, this does get hard trying to decifer what shes saying or what she means.

i dont know what go's on at home or how shes spoken too?, but i do know that things like crying and hitting must go on as she tries it on when she comes back after a few days of(mindee hitting, not parent)

it seems she doesnt 'take in' most requests or cant comprehend them?
another mindee was speaking to her today and was saying xxx look at this ive drew...xxx...xxx...xxx, mindee was just looking at something at other side of room and walked over to it, not hearing/understanding what mindee had said to her?

oh and she doesnt get frustrated either like some LO's do, nor does she get very excited by anything..just seems to be unintersted or lashing out, saying she is 'only playing' but will 'punch/nip/kick someone' as 'play'?

parents have just collected and i asked if they had noticed mindee ulling at her ear recently as she WAS doing this yesterday and then said she (recently) didnt seem to 'take things in' ifrst or second time and wondered if she had prob with ear??(shot in dark really, hoping dad would add to it), but they said she pulls ear when tired and although has a cold, her ears are fine..no mention of 'hearing/taking things in' at all, so they know i have noticed things but not said anything, if it was me id have asked what was meant by it, then i could have gone into tactful detail???

Do you keep a diary of what you do and say to parents? Might be worth noting that you had this conversation and when. It may well be absolutely nothing at all and that she is just a bit behind other kids of her age, BUT if there's something else, as least you've done your best. I don't think you can do more than that tbh.