Do I have unreasonable expectations of this child?

[alison222]

A 5 year old child I look after after school continues to do things that from the other children I mind and form my own children I wuld not expect at this age . I would like your thoughts on whether my expectations are too high or not.

The child has to be constantly reminded to use cutlery otherwise even hot food with sauce would be eaten with hands. Food is crammed into mouth in too large mouthfuls so the child has to literally hold food there in order to chew, talks with mouth like this and then as a result spits bits of food around the table.

Stops walking down the road without any warning to pick up elastic bands - he is obsessed with collecting them. When you have 6 children along a busy main road this sort of unannounced stopping has the potential to cause us to be separated if the older ones don't notice and I feel I am constantly calling to them to stop because of this.

culdn't understand why I did not want him pulling up the grass and making bare holes in our very sad looking lawn.

He is otherwise very intelligent and confident and chatty and a sweet bout to look after but some days I feel the niggles take over in my mind although I am careful not to let it show

His parents do not see these sort of things as problems - in fact as harmelss indiosyncranicities to laugh over how I have a problem with it -

Just read this back and it does sound a bit petty - except the food really gets to me, but this is just a few of the simalar examples.

I think I might just be having a bad day.

So he talks with his mouth full, stops in the street to collect things and pulls up grass?

And he's 5?

Er, and the problem is?

hmmm it does sound quite normal to me

but maybe I have low standards

ha! 2 seconds behind DrN

My childminder has said most of those things about my ds - especially the elastic bands! Because my child is like this I don't see a problem. He's not being naughty and even if he's still doing those things when he's 21 it won't be the end of the world.

it doesnt sound petty at all - do his parents tell you how he does at school?

its possible he could have some learning problems which haven't been addressed yet.

then again it may be that he is just disobedient or suffers (my OH has this) from 'inoneearouttheother-itus'

going home now!!! evening all!

Learning problems?!!

I have a little boy exactly like this but a bit more severe I think - as he can't do hiw own shoes has to be reminded to go to the toilet etc but he has SN!

Not sure what to suggest, I would talk to the parents, I know what you mean about the food this drives me loopy - tonight I have cleaned pasta tomato bake off my carpet as he used his hands! And always spills his drink!

Message withdrawn

Its a difficult one and I think just highlights everyones different standards. Perhaps table manners aren't taught at home. Perhaps meal in his home are a rushed affair.

I used to look after a LO whos parents wanted him to sit at the table for meals but at home they never sat with him. They expected him to sit at the table whilst they pottered about the house.

I currently mind a child who never says please and thank you. Child's parents says its old fashioned!

It's a 5 year old, pretty typical. My 10 year old still has to be reminded to stop talking while he is eating and to hold his utensils properly.

however, I am with you, table manners are quite important to me and doing that wouldn't be ok for me either, frankly.

I know parents who purposefully do not teach their children any table manners

certainly by 5 I would expect cutlery usage most of the time, eating with lips closed (and occasional reminders) and not talking with mouth full .. but have friends of 7 who don't do this because of their parents

the picking up things off street is again that their parents have allowed it as is the tugging out grass

I agree with you on all points .. I teach my kids not to do all of them .. but I think this kid's parents don't which is why he doesn't get it

you can teach him the rules in your house though

I'm with Twiglett on this one. You wouldn't see many reception age children eating like that in a school canteen, so I think your expectations sound pretty normal. Elastic bands sound quite sweet though

Sounds normal! My nearly 6 year old has to be reminded to use his fork, otherwise it's fingers all the way! He stops on the way home from to school and climbs lampposts. He digs holes in my garden!

I have similar issues with my stepsons, who are much older 12, 9). Their manners and general consideration for others are pretty non-existent because no-one bothered to have any expectations of them.

Children respond to what you require them to do. Obviously, if you have expectations of them that are beyond the biological developmental stage they are at, you will fail to get them to meet those expectations, and children's developmental path does differ. But, basically, if parents are decent people with good manners and considerate of others, and expect the same of their children, their children will grow into those behaviours too (albeit with many reminders).

Lots of parents these days are very laisser-faire IMO.

(Should add, we really do teach table manners, are constantly pulling him up on the fork, and his sister is exemplary! She is always complimented by strangers when we go out on her fantastic table manners, and she is 3!)

Hmm OK I need to lighten up.
The thing is I do expect at least use of a fork with things like shepherds pie or pasta and tomato based sauce.

I guess its just that the others are so much better at the table manners sort of thing.

Its very much at the front of my mind at the mo as we have been insisiting that my DS 6.5 uses his cutlery properly and have been making a concerted effort to get him to use a knife properly too - and its paid dividends so when I pull him up he says "but xxxx isn't even using a fork" or some such.

sounds like a normal 5 year old boys behaviour to me.

Agree with Twiglett and can also understand why it bothers you. How long have you had this child? My ds and mindee 1 both got this very quickly and were eating nicely at 3 BUT if this child is just being taught, it may take longer as they can get stubborn can't they if they're used to being able to just shove it in etc. Just keep up with 'at my house xyz' and I'm sure he'll get there in the end

ive found the hard way that even tho we try our best to teach them certain things liek manners which are acceptable with us, the often do something entirley diff at home..take for instance monday night..i am working over night, mindee bathed, clean jarmys on, we're all sat watching grease..mindee as susual sits picking her nose, i ask her not to do it and say ill get her a tissue if she wants one?..No...twice more it happend, the third time she wiped a huge snotty bogy all over the cushions on the sofa, now i know shes only almost 4, but its not like i hadnt told her 3 times already in the space of 2 mins!..when i said "XXX, i said you wernt to do that, we dont wipe bogies on furniture in this house", mindee starts crying and says well i can do it a t my house, mummy lets me and laughs....absolute brick wall!, cant teach them things if parents dont do the same..and now i have all cushions in wash cos in space of 16 hr shift, they are all caked!

only thing I'd be concered about are the rubber bands - dogs and cats and foxes might have peed all over them - dd used to have an obsession and I thought nothing of it until dh pointed this out
yuck

I don't think I'd expect him to use a fork for those type of foods - I think my dds used spoons until they were about 7 or 8.

Some of these actions may be "normal" for a 5 year old, but it doesn't mean that you should have to accept them.

Children are not allowed to pull up grass in our garden either (or trash bushes, plant pots etc). I am currently "practising" eating-with-mouths-shut-and-trying-not-to-talk-at-the-same-time with young toddler mindees - not always successful, but we all try to have relatively good manners.

I also think that a 5 year old should be able, or at least encouraged, to use a spoon, fork or whatever (not fingers) to eat a sauce-based meal.

Parents may have different rules or expectations, but children are more than capable of learning that their parents and their childminder may be different to each other. If you haven't been minding this child for very long, it won't happen overnight!

My ds (nearly 5) LOVES rubber bands!!

Table manners are quite important in my house. Mindee2 often needs reminding about using his fork but he's only 2! I think it's possibly because he loves his food and thinks he can get it in his mouth quicker with his hands!!

I think he's old enough to understand that you don't want him to rip up the grass and even though he may be allowed to do this in his own garden, it's not acceptable in yours (does that sound too strict?). Could you maybe explain about your "sad looking lawn" and try growing some new grass with him?

If you nag him too much while he is eating at your house, he may simply refuse to eat at your house full stop.

Most of this 'behavior' seems very normal.

despite me being very very keen on polite table manners, my 4 year old still has none. My 1 year old has more! But if his child minder was going against my wishes, and insisting he concentrates hard on his manners (thereby producing the food refusal I mentioned) I would be very cross.

You are his child minder, not his mum, and I don't think it's your place to critisize the table manners standard his own parents have set.

I can see that wandering about and grass pulling would be a problem - perhaps he needs a trip to the park where he can play with the grass? I personally consider gardens in houses with children to be the refuge of the children, but I understand that not everyone sees it like this.