Surely CM should have 'spot inspections' by OFSTED in the same way that nurseries do?

[Bubble99]

There are crap nurseries (I'm a nursery owner.)

There are crap childminders.

Spot-check weeds out bad nurseries.

Why are CM's given notice of visits?

Observations and planning can not easily be backdated. But activities and menus can.

Any thoughts?

Is very likely that a CM would be out if a spot visit was given. THink that is the main really.

Agree - it would have to be arranged so the childminder would know to be at home that day - and also arranged around school/preschool drop-offs etc.

If an OFSTED inspector had a list of CMs and their mobile numbers, and was working through an area, surely he/she could pitch up in 'area 3' or whatever and 'phone through the lsit until they found a CM who was on the inspection list?

I was a bit disturbed to read the 'What shall I cook for my mindees next week when the OFSTED inspector is here' thread, TBH.

Surely this is open to (in the case of crap CMs) all kinds of abuse?

In Dorset we dont get told what day OFSTED is coming only whatweek, they then ask what time we go out and when back. Thay then turn up sometime that week in the times you are home.

And yes agree, when we had under 8's Officers they came more often and unexpectdly or in my case when she was in my area and fancied a coffee

But surely even being told the week will forewarn crap CMs?

Ofsted make the rules. Why not ask them the reason?

I know what you mean I also worry about those cm given inadequate with a notice to improve cos then they are given months ahead the date of their next inspection. or at least thats what i was lead to believe by another cm in my area. I totally agree that cm shouldnt be given too much notice mine rang to sya she was coming and I gave her dates and times then she rang again 2 weeks later to confirm dates and times again and then turned up the next day. \most cm round here get a call on the mon and are visited that week so time to sort house and other bits but like you said not time to back date loads

i am a cm (first inspection due next week)and i agree with the op about 'spot' inspections.

most of the cm's i know provide a good service, and when ofsted turn up to check they get a good grading. however there are one or two who provide crap care and crap food in a crap environment then when ofsted are coming simply 'clean up' their act and also manage to get a 'good' grading so it is NOT at all a fair reflection or comparisson.

I agree they should do visits without warning but ofsted need to visit cms now while they are childminding, at home, and when the childminder has child's record books with her (may be with parents) - so it would be hard to just turn up unnanounced. My last inspection was arranged in the same way as shoshas.
I wouldn't mind them turning up announced as I plan meals and activities two weeks in advance, and do records day to day. The thread about teas made me uncomfortable too which is why I didn't post on it. Although in the ops defence, I think she was asking in relation to something that would be easy to prepare whilst she had inspector in the house.

LoL I know a CM Iwouldnt leave adog with, who managed to so convince OFSTED, that she got your grade!!!!!

Another who was a great CM, but naybe not so good at her paperwork, got a satifactory.

To me Ofsted Reports are a waste of time.

You also get like I did , a Good because the inspector 'has never given a Outstanding and never will as everybody can improve'!!!!

I really really can type and spell, just not on MN

If you are a childminder on network you do get regular unannounced visits by your network coordinator. Mine turned up unannounced this morning - but it was my day off after a night shift so she didn't come in.
I does keep me on my toes.
I do agree that it is an advantage to have any warning of an Ofsted inspection - even if only by an hour!
But I don't believe that even a week of notice would make a crap minder good.

Spot inspections are good for everyone, I think.

I'm really pleased that the inspectors now just turn up at nurseries. We're running a good nursery and I used to get really P'd off with the crap (mainly chain) ones who would just bus a load of staff in from other branches the week before the inspection (week before, see, so that the children would be familiar with them.)

goosegg. Not enough time to convincingly 'make up' planning and observations, I agree.

But enough time to plan activities that will not be repeated once OFSTED have gone?

"But I don't believe that even a week of notice would make a crap minder good"

i know a minder who found out wednesday her inspection would be some time the next week. she managed in those few days to draw up contracts, fill in child record forms, get permission forms signed, do some artwork (supposedly done by the children) to put up on the walls, borrow toys from anyone willing to lend them, put up stair gates etc. etc. etc.

she also got a cm friend to look after her own two children every morning that week in case ofsted came.

what a joke, she got a good! makes me wonder if ofsted is worth the money it must cost to run????

I think the lesson to be learned is that parents should go with their instincts, visit the cildcare setting lots, at different times, unnanounced if possible,
don't just go on ofsted's report,
ask for parent references,
look for evidence of advanced planning, good ratios and records, etc.
I often question Ofsted's worth to be quite honest but am sure there would be even more bad childcare settings if Ofsted weren't around.

I actually said to an Ofsted inspector (some time ago at a conference) that CMs felt very stressed by the prospect of having an inspector present for several hours when we had, potentially, three tantrum-riddled toddlers causing havoc whilst trying to convince an inspector that we weren't the dog's dinner.

I suggested that they booked a set time and date to discuss and go through all the "boring paperwork" stuff at a time convenient to the childminder (perhaps with no children, or just the ones that don't commit major crimes in public).

The inspector could then make unannounced visits as and when they want, to actually check up on the things that they need to "check us" for. This check-up might only take 15/30 minutes. They can run around and check for cleanliness, count how many children you have, and ask to see the written arrival times for the children present.

The inspector said that this would be unworkable as it would waste their time by going to empty houses for spot-checks. I tried to explain that all they had to do was go to the next CM, or the next. We don't all go out all day.

I was totally unable to make her understand that they really don't necessarily see a true picture of a CM when there is all-out-war in your living room - she didn't think children would behave that badly just because an Ofsted inspection was in progress; and also didn't think it was unreasonable to expect a CM to keep the peace for, perhaps, "only" 3 or 4 hours (or more) whilst they tried to watch us behave normally.

I wonder if any ofsted inspectors come on mumsnet?
Bet they daren't!

That is awful I cant believe they saw through her. I always worry about those childminders that do special activities to impress OFSTED and make sure they do them every day once OFSTED have rung so no children say we have never done this before. One cm I knoe bought all her policies off ebay and had them emailed to her so she could print them off and pass them as her own!!!

i know what you mean kaysamuels, and to be honest most of the parents i know don't give a bottom what ofsted says on their report!

especially as two of my mindees parents are teachers

TP if you are Accredited you have a 3 yes 3 day Inspection, with the Inspector trying to talk to you all the time, and go through your curriculum, our Inspection is the same as a nursery one, but I cant just go up to the office with the Inspector to go through it, like a manager can!

TP I know what you mean when I had my inspection the inspector followed me into the kitchen while I made her cup of coffee and got me to show her all the safety features in place in the kitchen and garden when we went back into lounge my ds had thrown her laptop on floor cos she had left it on side. I told her it hadnt even occured to me that it would be left in reach as we dont leave things lying around was really worried she would mark me down for her mistake!

I think OFSTED should visit at a minimum every year

I like TP's idea of a 3 yrly (say) paperwork inspection plus annual unannounced childcare inspection

Best of everything

Last inspection I had was a phone call Friday pm - when will you be in next week
My inspection was Tuesday am

I do nothing extra when OFSTED is due (for me anyway - I'm a bit more anal when my employees are being inspected) as if I'm good all the time - why should I bother?

I actually buy/borrow a brand new toy or activity whenever I've had an inspection due - something that I've wanted, but I've saved it for the "special occasion" (got a farm set one year, or a construction toy etc). It's not necessarily been needed, but can give us a breather for all of half-an-hour!

At my last inspection, my Ofsted inspector said that she wasn't going to ask me anything about my Behaviour Management Policy as she had watched me put it into action for the previous two hours. (I can't remember what I'd attempted to bribe the children with that year, but it didn't work!)

I am totally confident about my abilities, my understanding of children, and that the children (and parents) are happy with me, and would love to have spot-checks more regularly so as to get across to Ofsted what I'm really like. This stupid three-yearly inspection, when you can potentially "fail" miserably because you haven't got a visitor's book or a signature in the right place, is what stresses me!!