Moving from mother's help/au pair/nanny to registered childminder... help!! - Long email

[Jackaroo]

I have to confess to having a very loose arrangement with the woman who looks after our DS a couple of days a week. She arrived over a year ago, stayed with us for 6 weeks, was magic, came back after christmas with boyfriend in tow, so into a separate flat, and we coudlnt' afford her f/time, so found 2 other mummies to split the time.. worked brilliantly, although now it's just two of us mummies.
DS adores her and we've been encouraging her to register formally as a childminder (since she started), for when our arrangement finally ends, and so that she's all above board (it hasn't been, but we've been very generous I feel, as does she........ ) but it's all suddenly gone a bit weird. My understanding was that if we paid her sickness and holiday pay, and taxes then we are employing her as a nanny... which we didn't want to do - the organising of stuff for only 15 hours a week didn't seem worth it... whereas if she's a childminder, I was expecting to up her salary even further to cover the fact that she'll be paying her own taxes/squirrelling stuff away against sickness etc.
It now turns out other mum has been paying her for every single day she does 52wks/yr, whether she's there or not... which I havecn't. I am mortified that I therefore look as if I'm being cheap, when to be honest it hadn't even occurred to me (I wasn't paid for holiday/sickness when I was a mother's help/nanny)......
She is now asking for all this to be paid, just as her registration is coming through. So, I'l lhave a registered childminder, but will be paying her benefits.
Can someone tell me what the normal way of doing things it... so I have some perspective?! I'm happy to either pay benefits, or increase her hourly rate, but not both!
I'm sure someone will rant at me for taking advantage, but I really didn't see it lke that as we were paying her well, she says she loves it here, and is very upset that we will only need her for another year......and we have been going on and on about getting it all formalised for bloody months. Have I really messed up?

I am not sure I understand what your arrangement was exactly, but I think you had agreed to pay purely for the hours this person provided childcare, plus the 4 weeks holiday pay. Is that right?
So now that this person is becoming a registered childminder (providing childcare at her home, not yours), then it would be up to her to draw up a contract and to agree a hourly, daily, weekly or monthly rate. As you said, that rate may well be higher, though could also be lower. If you are no longer to be her employer, then how can you possibly pay any 'benefits'... it would be up to her to decide how much she charges for childminding and you to then decide if that is a price you are prepared to pay.

Where will she be providing the care?
Are you in England?
Is she a registered childminder - or perhaps something else... such as an approved nanny?

Sorry, I'm a little confused, thus the queries.

not sure I follow your post completely but....

if she's registered as a cm then no, you don't pay her tax/NI as she is self employed. But, until she is registered you should be doing so.

As for sickness, when she is registered you don't pay if she's sick but pay if you/your child is sick/absent.

Also, as a registered childminder the norm is 4 weeks paid holiday a year.

Just so that I can try to get my head around this, can you confirm the following:

You hired the person as a live in nanny.
6 weeks later, her situation changed and she became a live-out nanny.
Then your situation changed and you agreed to employ her on a part-time basis.
You helper her find other work, for the remaining time... but when working for you, she only cared for your children, not others at the same time.
She is registering as a childminder and once that paperwork is through, she will provide care for your DS at her home, for the hours you require.

Is that right so far?

Um, I knew it was a little confused... sorry, i'm still reeling I think.

Nannynick - yes to everything you said in your 2nd posting........plus
yes, quietmouse, obviously we pay her if we are sick/are the reason she can't work...
BUT, she is still going to be working out of my house/the other mum's house looking after one child at a time, with a bit of looking after both for one afternoon a week...
the other mum said she had looked into it, and it's not a proviso of being a CM that you work out of your own house.......... ?!? Is that wrong?

The location must be registered as well as the minder - at least that is my understanding. So someone can register to childmind from a property which they do not personally own, but it must be a residential property at which someone lives.

From how you describe it, I think this person may still be classed as an employee, to me at least it still sounds like a nanny share.

As part of the childminder registration process, Ofsted will inspect the premises. Which location has been inspected?

If no premises has been inspected, then this person may not be registering as a childminder... but as an approved nanny. You need to be very clear about exactly what registration they will have. An approved nanny will still nearly always be an employee. There is a thread on here where this is discussed at some length.

I'm completely confused now then - what was the other mum thinking? She's got our nanny (as that is what she seems to be according to this laws, and I've now googled further).. going on courses etc., which are costing lots of money..... and I'm not sure to what end.
You're of course right that a childminder's property has to be inspected, etc etc etc.
OMG!!!!!!!! I'm going away for a week on Wed., and her first course starts next week. mmm, thank you so much for your help........

Jackaroo

What courses... may help work out what is going on. I expect it is something to do with the Childcare Approval Scheme, which won't change employment status... will still more than likely be your nanny, either directly or within a nanny share. Trouble is one of the courses for the Childcare Approval Scheme, is the same as the one for Registered Childminders, thus there could be confusion over doing 'childminder training' but not actually being a childminder when they do their job.

I think you need to get to the bottom of what is going on and make sure that you and everyone else involved understands it.

Thanks so much Nannynick - I've just spoken to the other mum. The problem is that she has been getting her facts from the self-employed office, as she is SE herself... they of course don't give a toss about the legalities attached to being Childminder, and just said if she's SE she can work where she wants!! When I told her that there was a whole slew of legislation attached to being a Childminder that is totally separate, she said well, then I can just put Nanny on her payslips!!!!!
I'm going to call ofsted and see if I can get some clarity.