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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Policy vs contrat for holiday

52 replies

Mamabear87 · 09/01/2018 09:04

My cm has said I own her holiday pay.... in her policy it talks about her entitled to 4weeks.... but on the contract where it states the amount to pay when cm is on holiday, it has just put a line through it... this to me is stating there is no fee . When i go on holiday i pay full fee as stated which o agree with. I find it hard as I had to pay someone else to have my child as was unable to get 2weeks off work. My question is what would you so? I understand what is stated in policy but the contract is the legal binging agreement. So if the contract shows that u don't pay what do I do?

OP posts:

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Twofishfingers · 09/01/2018 09:08

Has she spoken to you about this before? Do you remember it being discussed during a face to face discussion?

If it's the first time you hear of it, I would set up a meeting and discuss it, looking at the contract to make sure it's clear.

Many childminders do charge for their holidays, some don't. However, this should be clear before you sign the contract.

Original poster

Mamabear87 · 09/01/2018 09:21

No it was never discussed. She brought it up to me in October when she took a week off saying I was meant to pay her holiday. But I didn't pay then and ahe never chased it. I said even back then I didn't realise due to the contract....
Before Christmas she brought it up so I said I didn't think I had to due to the contract and that she put a line through the bit on her for holiday pay. She said she would look.... never heard anything until yest wherr she told me what i owe! I have sent a pic of the part in contract.... but she came back with it in policy. I have never signed the policy but surely it's the contract that's the binding agreement not a policy?

OP posts:

AuntLydia · 09/01/2018 09:25

Yes you're right the contract is the legally binding bit - especially if you've not signed the policy. Totally her cock up. I also think she should have made it crystal clear from the outset that you would be paying for her holidays as this is a thorny issue! I only charge for parents holidays not my own but I make it very clear this is what I do so there's no misunderstanding.

Original poster

Mamabear87 · 09/01/2018 09:45

I would even be willing to compromise! I'm not a horrid person but I just don't see how people can expect something when it's not what was stated.... I think I'm annoyed because I feel stuck. I can't afford not to have a cm and the cm is fab with my lb. I feel I have no choice as she even highlighted the stuff last night about late payment and what she can charge

OP posts:

AuntLydia · 09/01/2018 09:57

It's a very difficult position you've been put in. Perhaps you could offer half as a compromise and state that you will pay holidays from now on as you are now fully aware of her terms.

QueenOfMyDomain · 09/01/2018 10:08

I used to be a childminder and never charged for my holidays, I don’t know any others who did either.
I also had parents sign to say they had read and agreed to my policies.
Since you haven’t done this and given the contract I would say don’t pay her. She is trying it on and hasn’t got a leg to stand on.

ElenaBothari · 09/01/2018 10:18

Does the contract refer to the policy, or state that it is subject to the policy?

Was it clear from discussions or correspondence that the policy terms were intended to be included in the contract?

If either of the answers are yes, it’s possible you’re legally obliged to pay.

If no, then you’re definitely not obliged and in your shoes I’d reply just saying the contract is the legal agreement and that says you don’t pay for her holiday. You have never agreed to pay for her holiday, might have chosen a diffeeent CM if she’d asked you to, and will not be paying this.

Original poster

Mamabear87 · 09/01/2018 10:23

Well I asked her what she think trying to get compromise and it was made clear it's in policy and I said I was happy with it.... now while yes it in policy it's the contract that is the official agreement? If she wrote it on there the amount I would pay without question but she put a line. Not sure how I can attach a photo to show it... but I've ended up paying her as I'm left with a chance if I don't of her taking legal action... and while I'm sure it wouldn't stand in court due to what is on the contract i cant afford to be dealing with court! I just feel this is totally unfair! I have now paid 2 people for 1 person looking after my son... and this is more upsetting to me. Feeling very pants at the moment.... feel like I've been taken for a ride and nothing I can do about it

OP posts:

Original poster

Mamabear87 · 09/01/2018 10:32

We never had an official meeting to discuss paper work.... she is a friend which is why this is hard.
There is nothing in contract stating to refer to policy...
This is what she sent me last night
"I have emailed you another copy of my policy's which I did give you to read? And you said you was happy with everything, When we did paper work, stating about holiday payments, I don't normally use the contracts I gave you it is ment to be normal payments but I did say to you before Christmas holidays is ment to be paid as all my other clients pay x"
Now in this she say stating holiday payment but we never did paperwork or discuss together.... she gave me contract about a month after my lb started. She back dated it.... and yes while happy with policy only because of referring to the contract. ... how can a cm not normally give a contract? Or have I made a mistake?

OP posts:

thisgirlrides · 09/01/2018 10:45

AFAIK a contract is legally enforceable but a policy is not so she is very lucky you've paid this time but I would make it very clear that it's the first and last time.

I do charge my year-round families for 4 weeks holiday but they knew this right from the off and the terms are very clear in both my correspondence and contract. She's made a mistake and needs to suck it up or ask for a new contract to be drawn up which you can refuse to sign but may have to look elsewhere for childcare!

Original poster

Mamabear87 · 09/01/2018 14:03

Thank you for that! I am unsure of how to bring up the subject. Especially if it's going to cause problems. He has now asked me to sign the policy and bring it back to her... which right now I am not willing to do until this issue is resolved. But if I don't can she terminate the contract? To me I just feel let down and taken for a mug!

OP posts:

jannier · 09/01/2018 14:10

Okay you cant now change the past you have paid for it. Going forward assuming to are happy with care and want to keep a friend ask for a meeting and discuss it....you need to know how many holidays she wants paying for and if you can come to an agreement or book the same time as her hence not needing to pay twice.

Generally on a £5 an hour full time contract 8 days a year works out to around £2.50 ish a week to give you some idea. Annualise her charges and see how they compare to others. she may be doing you other favours as a friend so bear everything in mind.

Get her to amend the contract with the agreed number of holiday days notice and charge and sign date and keep a copy. Legally she would have struggled to enforce it but its done now.

AuntLydia · 09/01/2018 14:14

If you've paid it then it's now up to you to decide if you want to accept her terms in the future. You can't force her to change them for you so if you don't want to pay for her holidays you need to find a new childminder with terms you do like.

OlennasWimple · 09/01/2018 14:15

Do you want to keep using her? Or would you be prepared to lose her as a CM (and possibly a friend) over this?

AJPTaylor · 09/01/2018 14:21

It is hard. When i had a childminder she helpfully told us in Jan each year when she was taking her 4 weeks so we could plan ours with minimal impact.

Original poster

Mamabear87 · 09/01/2018 14:33

The only reason I have paid is coz I don't want to lose her as a friend or cm.... she is amazing with my lb. See if I had plenty of n9tice t9 therefore arrange cover or be off it be easier n then not an issue... but when just under a month and then I can't get time off work is when it bothers me.... I know o have paid. This is my first time dealing with cms etc so I just wanted advice

OP posts:

marywasneeavirgin · 09/01/2018 14:44

I've never known a childminder be paid for her holidays, she's taking the piss, friend or no friend. Reiterate the policy is the legally binding agreement and whilst you've paid her for her holiday you won't in the future.

As good as she is with your dc it's time to look elsewhere. I wouldn't feel like i could trust someone as I think what she's doing is underhand and manipulative.

AuntLydia · 09/01/2018 15:09

Charging for holidays seems to be getting very common round here. I don't do it and never will as I don't agree with it but loads do. Worth the op checking what is standard in her area before refusing to pay it as she may lose this childminder and end up in the same position anyway!

Op, can you get her to write a decent notice period in the policy or contract? With the stipulation that anything under that notice equals unpaid holiday.

Original poster

Mamabear87 · 09/01/2018 16:07

I am in 2 minds over it all.... the reason my cm had 2 weeks off was because she had an operation. That part it fine by me but this is the second one... again fine by me but in the recovery side of thing, however I am aware due to it that the cm is unable to do as much with little ones... can't drive for 6weeks etc and this has already been making me think about things. ... I have noises at a few and my cm seems to be slightly higher than some in my area. But I don't know how it all works to be honest. And in her being higher I have got a friend's rate including in the rate. I think for me right now my concern is my lb... he is happy and clearly loves the cm. I don't really want to disrupt him when he is settled and happy. So feel I have no choice but to accept things

OP posts:

PrincessScarlett · 09/01/2018 21:44

I think your cm/friend has acted very unprofessionally and certainly doesn't have a leg to stand on with regards to her contract. She knows this which is why she wants you to now sign her policy. Worst case scenario if you don't sign/agree she could give you notice. How long has she been childminding?

I appreciate she's a friend but I think you need to at least look at your childcare options as the relationship is currently strained. You cannot let yourself be held to ransom if you are not happy with the situation. You might be happier not using a friend, your cm may have been a bit slapdash with you because you are a friend.

PrincessScarlett · 09/01/2018 21:46

Also, if her time off is for an operation and recovery that is NOT holiday. If she has nothing in her contract and policies about HER sickness then she is being even more out of order trying to argue it's holiday!

Original poster

Mamabear87 · 09/01/2018 21:48

She has been childminding over 10 years...

OP posts:

PrincessScarlett · 09/01/2018 22:09

Sorry OP but Ofsted would take a very dim view of cm having vague contracts, trying to pass sick off as holiday and working while she is unfit. If she's been childminding for 10 years makes you wonder what other stunts she's pulled over the years.

BTW, I am a childminder and wouldn't act/behave in this way.

thisgirlrides · 09/01/2018 22:20

If it was an emergency/last minute op then absolutely this comes under sickness which I assume you don't pay (that at least seems to be universally acknowledged as good practise) but if she gave the required notice of her intention to take the specified time off then it is holiday - what she does on it is her look out!

OlibobTop · 09/01/2018 22:22

It's quite normal to pay for CM holidays where I am.

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