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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Bank holidays - nanny payment

30 replies

Flyingcarpet · 25/04/2007 11:16

If I use a nanny for 2 and 1/2 days at the end of the week should I split the cost of bank holidays which are obviously mostly on Mondays with the person who uses her for an equal amount of time at the beginning of the week?
This seems to be the expected scenerio.What are the rules regarding bank holidays?

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ScottishThistle · 25/04/2007 11:18

I don't see why you should as she isn't your Employee on Mondays!

dmo · 25/04/2007 11:53

no dont think you need to i'm a childminder and dont charge mindees for bank holidays if they dont come on a monday

Eleusis · 25/04/2007 12:11

Depends... what do you mean by this seems to be the expected scenario? If this was discussed and agreed between you and the other family before you embarked on the share then yes probably it's fair for them to expect this. However if they have just now up and realised they think it's unfair and are now approaching you about splitting the ank holiday pay, then probably I'd say that's not okay.

How are the contracts written? Do you have a contract with nanny for say Wed, thursday, Friday and they have a separate contract with nanny for Mon Tues Wed? If so, I would say you are not liabe for what happens on Mondays.

There is of course an option that BAnk Hols are unpaid, but I don't expect that would fly with nanny. Does she get 4 weeks on top of Bank Hols? Who pays that holiday? And who picks it?

Original poster

Flyingcarpet · 25/04/2007 14:09

She is presently employed by the other family who only give her half pro rata for the bank holidays so the expectation is that the other half is picked up by her other new employer to be i.e. me.
I would expect separate contacts but it seems pretty unfair if she doesn't receive this other half for bank holidays.
I just have never had this with my other nannies as any day that was a bank holiday that they worked for me say Good Friday I just paid them as normal and gave them the day off.
She will get the normal 4 weeks - two weeks chosen by us and two by her.Her other employer gives her this also.On top of this I would expect her to get at least another couple of weeks holiday from me when I am off work on holiday and therefore don't need her as has happened with my previous nannies.Maybe I could use this in lieu of extra payment i.e. give her time allowance rather than pay for bank holidays - but is this unfair if the time is as decided by me?

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ScottishThistle · 25/04/2007 14:26

If she will most probably have extra paid time off in the year surely she (Nanny) isn't expecting you to pay 1/2 Monday Bank holiday pay?

nannynick · 25/04/2007 14:29

I am of the view that if you are not employing someone on a day on which a Bank Holiday falls, then you don't take that bank holiday into account. As you say, when it is a Friday bank holiday, then you take account of it.

Surely the agreement between the nanny and her/his Monday employer, is a matter between themselves, not something a third-party can influence.

As an employer, be careful of setting a precedence. Don't pay for bank holiday Mondays. Instead if you really want to give something towards those days, then do it as a bonus of some kind (like at Christmas, annual contract review etc).

Eleusis · 25/04/2007 14:43

I think I would insist on separate contracts. I probably would not pay for half of the bank holidays. What if she is sick on a Friday, are they going to pay half of her sick leave?

However, if say they had specifically rearrranged and taken her on Mondays so that you could use her oon say a Thrusday, then I might be willing to share the burden.

Alternatively, you could both write into your contracts that bank holidays are unpaid, but she gets 6 weeks of paid holiday. Then, she gets more holiday (which you are able to accommodate) and the other family doesn't feel as if they've been stiffed by taking the Mondays.

Are you and the other family coordinating holiday times? Have you agreed to write separate contracts? Are you writing them together to provide same terms? Are you using same payroll company?

Original poster

Flyingcarpet · 25/04/2007 20:20

Thankyou everyone so far.
I don't think the other nanny's employer and my holiday times will be able to be together as I have school age children and they don't.They therefore aren't likely to want the same 2 weeks as me.After all who wants to go away in the school holidays if they don't need to.

Neither of the employers has changed their working days to accommodate the other - it just happens to co-ordinate.

I could use the same contract although I haven't broached the subject of bank holidays yet.Their contract is already in place with half payment for bank holidays.It certainly suits me better to give extra holiday rather than bank holiday payment but really I shall need to ask the nanny herself then approach the other family.

I don't want this to seem petty on my part but it is an unexpected extra cost.

OP posts:

Eleusis · 25/04/2007 20:24

You might want to talk to nanny about what her holiday expectations are. She might be expecting you and the other family to coordinate so that she can have a whole week off.

goldenoldie · 25/04/2007 20:36

No - you just pay for BH that happen on your days, although this is one of those really irritating things that can blow up if you don't handle with sensitivity. Afterall - what are the expectations of other family and nanny?

Original poster

Flyingcarpet · 25/04/2007 20:41

If I was her this would be what I would want but for me this would mean taking time off work when my other children are at school which is not fair on them.

I also think I would be unable to co-ordinate this as my own employer expects a very long notice period for holidays(i.e. book in August this year(07) for the year after from April(08) to April in the following year(09)) and is not flexible.

This may also be a problem when agreeing her own 2 weeks.Can I ask for the same notice as my employer asks from me?

My previous nannies always just took their time around me and had extra as I rarely asked them to work in any of my 6 week annual leave - so even though it wasn't that flexible they always got extra holiday.
Have I just had very accommodating nannies?

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Original poster

Flyingcarpet · 25/04/2007 20:44

Goldenoldie:I think the expectations from her other employer are to share the costs of bank holidays equally between her two employers no matter what days she is working for who.

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Eleusis · 25/04/2007 21:03

That's silly. You have no obligation to do that. And, also, you don't have to let her choose two weeks of holiday. I would never put that in the contract. I write an annual fixed term contract and we agree the hols before it is written and we agree them then and write them into the contract. I gernerally say "right, when do you want?" and then I check with work to see if I can accommodate. So, in reality she chooses most of them. But, she is not contractually entitled to overrule me if my work should say no.

Original poster

Flyingcarpet · 25/04/2007 21:30

I agree my notice period for holidays is silly but I don't have a choice being the lowly employee.If I don't apply then I have to take whatever is left when no-one else is off which is at a time no-one really wants a holiday.
I have seen that generally 2 weeks are decided by the nanny although previously for me my other nannies have always taken time when I am off and I always give them extra.
Her other employer specifies she can choose 2 weeks so I think this is going to be difficult to coordinate so she gets the whole 2 weeks off from both jobs.I need to talk to her about how inflexible my own employer is but I feel she will probably expect those 2 weeks off.It is really complicated not being her sole employer.

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ScottishThistle · 25/04/2007 21:36

Sounds very complicated & if I were you I'd have a meeting with her & other Employers to discuss holidays.

I would'nt be happy if I couldn't at the very least have 7 days holiday no matter how many other days I had!

Eleusis · 25/04/2007 21:36

Nooooo... I mean it is silly for the other family to think you are going to cover half the bank holiday pay.

Tell her she can choose two weeks, so long as she does it before you write the contract. She might want to organise choosing the same week as she chooses with other employer.

ScottishThistle · 25/04/2007 21:36

Wouldn't!

Original poster

Flyingcarpet · 25/04/2007 21:48

Scottish Thistle :So I really need to give her at least a week of her choosing co-ordinated with her other employer which will probably be in term time so she has a full break from both jobs or will she expect two? Can I specify a longer notice period than her other employer who only asks for one month for holidays on either side?
Eleuis : Do you write a new contract every year? I always gave a standard one which covered the whole period the nanny worked for me.

OP posts:

ScottishThistle · 25/04/2007 21:56

Yes I suggest that you give her the choice to coordinate holidays so she can at the very least have a full week off...I don't know how difficult that'll be for you?

ScottishThistle · 25/04/2007 21:57

Yes I suggest that you give her the choice to coordinate holidays so she can at the very least have a full week off...I don't know how difficult that'll be for you?

ScottishThistle · 25/04/2007 21:57

Sorry didn't mean to repeat myself!

Ladymuck · 25/04/2007 22:02

Have to say that all part-time contracts that I have seen (including my own when I worked part-time) pro-rates bank holidays. I calculate my nanny's leave as being 20 days leave plus 8 days bank holidays multipled by the percentage of a full week that she worked for me. So for 3 days a week 28 times 60% = 16.8 ie 17 days per year holiday. If the nanny isn't working on a bank holiday then this is one of her 17 days. In general the nanny gains from this anyway as she is only obliged to take 2 weeks equivalent when we usually go on holiday (so 6 days), so she has 11 days to cover bank hols plus any hols she chooses, as well as getting a further 3 weeks (9 working days) or more where we are travelling or on holiday and therefore her services aren't required.

nannynick · 25/04/2007 23:49

I am getting the impression that this isn't a nanny share - but is two separate employments.
As such, you as the employer B have no reason to contact employer A, and they don't have to tell you a thing as it simply isn't any of your business regarding the contract they have agreed with their employee.

employer A as they were first (and perhaps even pay more/more hours) would be the nannies main employer. You (employer B) would be secondary employer. When I nannied 3 days per week and nursery temped 2 days per week, neither employer was really aware of the other. I certainly didn't get them to discuss holiday arrangements. I don't see your situation being any different, or are your children going to this other employers home at some point?

Original poster

Flyingcarpet · 26/04/2007 09:39

For the half day I was considering upping to a full day and doing a nanny share (paying the nanny 25% extra to look after both children) on this day as the other employer is also happy to do this.This would certainly help with costs.However if I do this doesn't it make things more complicated all round or can we still keep separate contracts.
As you say it isn't officially at the moment a nanny share just me taking her on for the days she doesn't work for her other employer.But if we do share a day - at my house - do the contracts have to be the same? Who is the main employer then.
My head is spinning - I think this is all very complicated being a part time employer once you get down to the nitty gritty.

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Eleusis · 26/04/2007 09:55

SOmething that jumps out at me in your posts is that it doesn't seems you have an open line of communication with the other family. For example, what is the plan when one kid is sick? Does nanny look after them all? What if nanny is sick, then can you alternate looking after all the kids with the other parent(s)? I think you need to look at the other parents contract, make sure the terms in your contract are compatible, and then have a 3 way conversation (you, other parent, and nanny) to make sure everyone is happy with final arrangement.

When you consider wh ois paying what think about all the other costs that are incurred. For example, if both kids spend every Wed. at your house, do you pay the whole food bill? And if you do, then maybe the other parent should pay all bank hols to even it out? If you decide to have a single contract, then what happens if one person backs out. Say other family gives notice, does that break the contract between you and nanny or is she still bound to your part of the job?

You should ABSOLUTELY pay the nanny in gross. I hope you are not considering a net salary.

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