Cm with 4 under 5 - big deal?

[ChameNangerRanger]

Cm at playgroup with 4 under 5s to look after. I thought it was only 3 under 5 allowed. Is this a big deal or is there some flexibility with it/are you allowed more as long as it's not regular?

There is some flexibility

Lots of reasons why it might be 4 under 5s. Just a few examples

A current child needed an extra one off day
A current child needed a permanent change
A current child has a new sibling
The cm gives birth to a new baby

Ok so it's not a hard and fast rule? I'm sure it was a regular child needing an extra day. Certainly not a young sibling or cm's own child.

What’s the reason for needing to know?

I was curious because I use a childminder (not that one) and had thought that was the rule

Depends where in the UK you are. In Wales there is no flexibility at all any more, nobody is allowed more than 3 under 5 in any circumstances. From the other replies I'm assuming England is a bit more flexible.

I went to toddlers with 4 under 5 yesterday. DH and I had 6 children and he had 2 at home.

A CM in England can't just take on a 4th child for more money, but they can take a sibling, offer an extra day to an existing child, etc.

Talk to them when you next see them?

I have 4 under 5 almost every day now. Certainly not by choice, but 1 of my mindees needed two extra days and I couldn’t bear the idea of her going to another setting as I thought it would be so unsettling for her (lots going on at home at the moment too). The other two days is a child’s younger sibling. Again, parents really desperate and at just 6 months old I really didn’t want her to have to go to another childminder or nursery.
Of course, if you got the impression that the childminder wasn’t coping with the 4 children then that’s a different story, but otherwise I think you need to keep out

I'm sometimes 4 under 5s because a child's mother died and her dad had to increase his childcare. The last thing the family needed was a new childminder. There is, thank God, some flexibility so long as we can cope and we don't exceed 6 under 8s overall.

I do hope you're not contemplating a report to Ofsted?

Its called continuity of care and is allowed if you risk assess and parents are aware. If you have a new baby yourself, take on a sibling, an existing parent needs to change days.

Thanks that's interesting to know and I'm glad there is flexibility as it's common sense. I suppose as a parent you may not be keen on your 2-3yo cared for as 1 of 4 of a similar age regularly, but obviously that's an individual thing.

Maybe I should have just asked her but it would have sounded quite rightly very nosy! and she was busy chatting. Was just mulling it over afterwards.

Your quite right OP. That's why parents need to know how many children a CM is caring for.

*you're

Don't forget in a nursery it is common to have workers out of rooms and all staff in the building count as ratio so I've often seen one staff member with 8 to 10 children this age. And if you have qualified Teacher status it can be higher.

Do you know she is at work? This could be her 4 nieces/nephews. I don't really think it's your business

It’s normally 3 under 5 but as others have said special exceptions can be made for sibling babies or the CMs baby as long as the CM can prove to the inspectors that the care in the setting isn’t negatively affected.
The ratios are there for good reason and I think you’re right to question because it’s best to be sure she does have permission for the extra child.

I don't agree that it's right to question a childminder and to check that she has permission. It is none of anyone's business except the childminder, their parents and OFSTED.
If you think they are providing poor care, or can't cope with those numbers, then that's a different matter. However, most childminders will take on the numbers they feel comfortable with, some will prefer to take on fewer and others will cope with the permitted higher numbers, perhaps working with assistants or co-minders as well. We're professionals and deserve to be treated as such when we make a professional judgement on how we run our business.

I am so tired of people thinking it's fine to bully childminders in this way - and it is bullying them. So many people kept on and on at me when my mindee's mum died. I was bloody furious about it: we were all coping with an incredibly traumatic event and these busybodies thought they had the right to cross-question me, nosy further into the circumstances if I explained, and report me to OFSTED if I countered with "I'm sorry, I can't discuss it."

I'm sorry, you might be good but you must know that there are some crap childminders out there!

Of course I do!

Let me repeat again:
“If you think they are providing poor care, or can't cope with those numbers, then that's a different matter. ”

That’s not the issue here, though. The issue here is childminders operating within permitted numbers according to the EYFS.