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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Should I sack my nanny - safety concerns

48 replies

knakered · 02/04/2007 23:50

I have had my nanny for nearly 3 months now. I have had an intuitive feeling that she doesnt get safety from the begining but thought it "was just me"...I have 4 children - oldest 3 at school - but a 9 month old at home. The nanny told me that she left the baby in the car alone around the back of the shops in a car park whilst she brought the five year old into buy an ice cream...it was 6.30pm and dark...this made me fel sick...and I gently explained that this was wrong. Today I cam ehome for her to tell me that the baby (just started crawling)...enjoyed playing out on the deck ...and it was great as she could sit inside on the sofa and watch her...this made me feel sick...the deck had a sheer 2ft drop down onto conrete steps (I know we need to sort this)...but if the baby had fallen there waas absolutely no way she could have got to her front in doors on the sofa...and we would have avery serious accident on our hands. She is a really nice girl but I think that she as absolutely no "safety instinct"...I am not sure I can teach her this ...and dont want for her to learn by her mistakes on my childrens health and safety. My husband and I have had a massive row this evening as my instinct is that I feel unable to hand over my babay to her in the morning. He thinks that we need to " train" her up - and that I would be unfair in letting her go. We have not yet set up a contract and I have contingencies for a alternative childcare.

OP posts:
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controlfreaky2 · 02/04/2007 23:52

i think you know the answer....

BadHair · 02/04/2007 23:56

If you haven't got a contract and you have alternative childcare, let her go.

What childcare qualifications does she have, if any? Did you check her references? Was she from an agency and if so did they check her quals and refs?

I would not want my children being looked after by someone so clearly inept, TBH.

knakered · 03/04/2007 00:03

I got her from a website, she has limited experience a qualified but never worked teacher - had looked after older children - wa sup front about not having baby experience, I liked her thought I would give her a chance...didn t check her refs as the previous family sounded awful...gormless should have done this

OP posts:
Skribble · 03/04/2007 00:03

If she is so oblivious to these kind of safety issues, I am not sure I would want her to learn with my family. Yes people need to learn but in this kind of work they should have some sort of instinct for it.

Sole charge of babies requires maturity and commen sense I am afraid and she doesn't seem to have it with regards to making safe judgements. Almost 100% of mothers would agree the examples you have given not on and would never do either. A bit beyond the do I leave bay in the car while I pay for petrol, round the back of the shops is a bit more extreme.

Even if she has no instincts I am sure you do, follow them .

hunkermunker · 03/04/2007 00:09

A baby, a two foot drop onto concrete and an inattentive nanny? Can your DH not see what might have happened here?

Get rid. ASAP.

knakered · 03/04/2007 00:19

Hunkermunker...of the nanny or the husband?..I agree...I think he just hates conflict..and the idea of the hassle of getting a new nanny...also some men just dont get that "gut" feeling when things are wrong...thanks for your input I now feel I am not mad/over reacting etc...inept is exactly right..poor selection process on my behalf.....spoke with my Mum this evening who said that she had a concern - as last week when my heating was off for a couple of days the naany said it was so cold that she turned all of the hb rings on full blast and left them on for the day to warm the place up..with 4 kids running around????

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 03/04/2007 00:22

LOL - the nanny! Ask him whether the inconvenience of finding a new nanny is more or less than the trips to hospital a baby landing on concrete would cause

nannyk · 03/04/2007 01:10

Oh My God - knakered you really need to get rid of her!!! If the baby on the deck wasn't reason enough, then having gas (I assume it was gas) hobs on all day is terrible!! She sounds like she has no common sense at all, and that is kind of a prerequisite for anyone who looks after children. If the house was really that cold, she should have just had everyone put on another jumper. Her lack of judgement and awareness of safety issues is alarming. It was nice of you to give her the chance to do this job, but it sounds like she is a liability. I would sack her, she isn't a safe caregiver for your children.

arfishy · 03/04/2007 01:44

I've read your posts with absolute horror. You need to get rid of her - you can't teach common sense.

It will be a pain and awkward, but better than a fractured skull or burns. Don't let her do bath time!

nannynick · 03/04/2007 01:45

Safety and children go together I feel to a certain extent. However, I also feel that children need a chance to be children and explore their world (within reason). It can be tricky to find the right balance, but any risks I take, are calculated risks based on my experience with that child.

In your particular case, the child at most risk is your 9 month old baby who is now mobile. Your baby will want to explore their environment but restrictions will need to be put in place to avoid accidents.

"she could sit inside on the sofa and watch her" - you are not paying your nanny £10 per hour, plus gym membership (thinking back to your other threads) for her to be sitting on the sofa watching your baby play outdoors.
Yes, you should make the deck safe... until it is safe, then your nanny shouldn't be letting the children play there - especially leaving a baby unattended!

I would say that you should trust instincts. You need to have a childcarer whom you trust. While they may make mistakes on occasion (after all, even a supernanny is human), you don't want to be constantly worrying about your children's safety and well-being.

It will certainly be easier to end your employer employee relationship sooner, rather than later - as for the first few months it could have been a probationary period.

With regard to a contract, you do have a contract with your employee, even if it isn't written. Most employees are entitled to 1 Week notice after 1 month's service. The DTI say that "All employees taken on for one month or more are entitled by law to be given, within two months of the date the employment starts, a written statement setting out the main particulars. This statement will not necessarily cover every aspect of the contract, but will constitute important evidence of the principal terms and conditions." More information about Contracts and Written Statement from DTI.

As you say you do not have a written contract, then I feel it will be hard to dismiss your employee on grounds of Gross Misconduct (as you haven't set out what grounds those are). Therefore may be better to terminate with 1 week notice period (unless you had previously agreed any longer period of notice, verbally or via e-mail).

Should you decide to keep this nanny on, you must produce a contract/written statement, and I would strongly suggest that you include a lot of information in the Gross Misconduct section, especially about safety - so that your nanny is clear as to how important you feel safety is, and what actions would result in instant dismissal.

Eleusis · 03/04/2007 11:20

FFS, Knackered you didn't check the references?!?!?! Have you learned nothing on the Mumsnet nanny threads? Sorry to be so harsh, but really.... please check them from now on.

I had a nanny once (my first one) who had some safety issues and few other problems. It was such a relief when she was gone. Tell her to go, today! (keep the hubby). You must put your children's safety first. Don't feel guilty about her. Your job first and foremost -- is to protect your children.

After she leaves, people will come out of the woodwork to tell you things and you will think "now why didn't you tell me sooner". At least, this is what happened to me.

mumto3girls · 03/04/2007 11:22

she could sit on the sofa???? wtf?

NAB3 · 03/04/2007 11:32

She has GOT TO GO.

NOW.

Josie3 · 03/04/2007 11:41

Give her notice! Even competent nannies and parents make some mistakes - but this sounds like she is completely unaware - yes it could be taught - but should it really be done at your childrens' expense? It sounds like she would benefit from being a mothers help for a while- to get guidance.

docket · 03/04/2007 11:47

Agree with everyone else. Trust your instinct and get rid!

annh · 03/04/2007 11:47

Get rid of her, she seems to be completely lacking in common sense. However, as Nannynick so wisely said you do need to be careful. How are you paying her? If you use an agency, they may be able to advise on the correct way to go about it.

And next time, give your nanny a contract! And check her references - of course, she is going to tell you her last family were awful - maybe they had issues with her as well! If you fire her, don't you think she will pull the same stunt with any prospective new families? What's she going to say about your family?!

NAB3 · 03/04/2007 11:59

If there are real safety issues, and the wellbeing of a child is at stake, why can't a nanny be scaked with immediate effect???

looneytune · 03/04/2007 12:18

OMG, I had more safety sense about babies when I was 13 FGS!!!

I agree you can teach certain things BUT you also need to have that natural instint about safety issues.

I agree you should get rid but you may have to give some kind of notice as nannynick says? I've no idea about this stuff but he does (he even helped me when dh was unfairly sacked - and we won!)

nannynick · 03/04/2007 12:22

NAB, a nanny can be suspended with immediate effect and following investigation can be sacked without notice, if it is Gross Misconduct . Gross Misconduct is a section of a contract, which should state the situations where such action would be taken. For any other situation, disciplinary procedure needs to be followed.

ACAS - Taking Action See section titled Dismissal Without Notice.

Saturn74 · 03/04/2007 12:24

Listen to your instincts.

nannynick · 03/04/2007 12:30

For those interested, ACAS have a booklet regarding Disciplinary Procedures .

Eleusis · 03/04/2007 12:32

Knackered, what does your contract say? Mine has a list of various curcustances which are grounds for immediate dismissal -- and the children's health and safety is among them.

Anybody wh oleft my 9 month baby in danger of dropping 3 feet to a concrete landing would not be left in charge of him/her... let alone paid for it.

Mumpbump · 03/04/2007 12:36

I think you should let her go, but explain why so that she hopefully won't repeat the same mistakes in the next job. I agree that if I was paying a qualified person to look after my 9 month old, I would not expect them to be sitting on the sofa watching the baby play outside. In fact I raised this point with dh the other evening with reference to our au pair who was watching tv whilst ds roamed around the living room, but I do accept that an au pair is not a trained childcare professional.

I agree that safety is paramount and if she really just doesn't have the danger sensors, then it is best not to run the risk with your baby. If your dh really can't see that it is an unacceptable risk, I am amazed! Point out to him that the vast majority of deaths occurring in childhood are due to accidents...

looneytune · 03/04/2007 12:36

Problem is she doesn't have a written contract, it's verbal.

Eleusis · 03/04/2007 12:37

I would also get in contact with that reference that you didn't check and find out what they think of her -- ASAP. Ask them how they let her go, and how she handled it.

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