At my wit's end with childcare for dd

[TheOGbaby]

I have 3DC, 4yo, 2.5yo and 9mo. I have been looking after them alone since 4yo was born, but I have started working for myself and late last year decided to get a nanny.

dd (2.5yo) refused to interact with the nanny at all. She wouldn't answer her questions, wouldn't do what she asked, wouldn't eat, wouldn't drink, would refuse nappy changes until her nappy fell off, then would refuse to let the nanny touch her and poo and wee on the floor. She would go to the opposite end of the house and stay there all day until I came back when she'd be happy that DH or I had returned. The other two DC were happy with the nanny.

This nanny wanted to leave because she said she felt she could not keep 2yo dd safe as she would be with the other children and constantly having to go to the other end of the house to check on dd who would do deliberately risky things like try to open windows or turn on all the taps.

I suggested other ways she could engage with dd, even that dd watches TV while the nanny is in the living room with the other DC, leading to dd eventually wanting to join in, but dd wouldn't tolerate that either. I suggested that the nanny be strict with dd and pick her up and do what needs to be done, but that always led to very long drawn out tantrums and dd throwing things around, throwing 4yo and 9mo's toys across the room, trying to hit the nanny and making it impossible for the nanny to look after all three.

She eventually left and I've employed several other people who she was the same with. The current nanny has just started and the same problem has arisen again.

The reason I'm posting this is because I want to know what you think dd needs in order to be left with someone else apart from DH and I. This nanny has suggested locking the doors of rooms where I don't want dd to go so she has no choice but to be in the living room/kitchen/garden with the nanny. But I feel that would just lead to further tantrums.

I can't work out if she is spoiled, or I am pandering to her too much, that dd has behavioural or social issues or we just haven't found the right nanny yet?

This current nanny suggested that we should put her in nursery as apparently in that environment children are more keen to conform than around their siblings.

No way to tell if she's spoiled of not but you shouldn't be avoiding sensible suggestions from your nanny I.e. Looking doors because you're scared she might have a tantrum. It does feel like you let her call the shots too much.

That behaviour sounds quite strange to me - my two dcs have never had issues with their nanny. How is she being left with others? I would try nursery or childminder to see how she fares in a different setting.

Sounds just plain naughty and no real sanctions. Can't the nanny just pick her up and move her to the sitting room? A bit of brute force to pin her down for nappy changes and she'll get the message it's nicer to cooperate.

Naughty? God love her she's been on the planet for 30 months, in

that time she's a new sibling ( congratulations ) and various

carers. I think she's probably feeling a bit discombobulated and wanting

you or her dad. Have you tried a nursery? Maybe she might settle with

children other than siblings to distract her.

My dd was a sticking plaster - it's not easy, but all children are different

please don't treat her as if she's "naughty" she is very, very little.

I hope you find something that works for you all

Oh and "brute force" NO.NO.NEVER

Do you not lock your front door or use stair gates to contain your daughter and stop her from doing dangerous things? That's the same thing as what the nanny was suggesting. Why are you not prepared to take action to prevent your child doing dangerous things because you're scared of a tantrum?

Brute force doesn't mean hitting or hurting - it actually provides security through gentle but firm control for minor things like changing a nappy. A toddler is too young to negotiate with and clear boundaries are a good thing. Having a nappy changed is a perfectly reasonable expectation and there is no unkindness in doing so by the adult taking control physically. Much kinder than allowing the child to develop skin soreness and be uncomfortable for fear of being the adult.

Oh that "gentle" brute force Crumbs1 forgive me, I thought you wrote to brute force

What sort of settling in did your children do with the nanny?

I would suggest that you and the nanny spend time together with the children and let your dd see that the nanny is a person that you trust and have a relationship with. Much like the home visits that nurseries do with new starters
Go for a picnic together, or the park or just spend some time together at home.
Let her see you and the nanny chatting and laughing and having fun
I don't think there is a quick fix to this but I'm sure it is possible to change your ds behaviour
She's not being naughty, she's using her behaviour as a form of communication to indicate she is unhappy
What's her speech like?
How is she with other people?
is her development on track?

How are things today TheOG ? I think insan makes some really good points around building a relationship between the nanny and dd

I have spent three days so far with this particular nanny at home. Dd just follows me around and cries if I don't do everything for her, and the nanny looks after the other two. Which is pointless for me as I need to work. And if I am looking after one child I may as well be looking after all of them.

Three days in (after a trip out together, picnic, mealtimes, playground, chatting with the nanny) we are no closer to her accepting her as someone to look after her. And it has been like this with every nanny too, so not a personality thing.

If I send dd to nursery then I have to do the inevitable settling in that involves while having two further children at home. Also she will then be separated from her siblings which is not what I want.

She speaks a lot and well. Her development is on track except she is not potty trained.

I can't see how she'll ever settle with the nanny if you are omnipresent. Of course she'll demand your attention if you're there.

Someone upthread told me to spend time with dd and the nanny !

Yes, no winning in parenting is there? I still think the child needs time with nanny to develop relationship.

What training have these nannies had ? For someone not to be able to change a 2 year olds nappy they don't sound very experienced, let alone one allowing her to go off to other parts of the home unaccompanied.....do you not have stair gates and a safe play room or lounge. Get someone with experience either a good nanny or child-minde and who will stick through the settling in your Lo has know learned if she kicks off she wins and you come running whilst nanny is out the door....and let your nanny make and enforce the rules without you interfering as that just weakens the respect for he...nanny on duty nanny rules mum out of house or out of sight.