CM Club - HELP, had enquiry for after school care, got some questions........

[looneytune]

Hi

When I started childminding nearly 2 years ago, I started straight away with 4 mindees, 2 were school runs/holidays. My ds was only 2.5 at the time and I wasn't used to the older children (especially how much they eat!!! ) I only looked after these older children for about 3/4 months because ds ended up at a nursery in a totally different direction so couldn't do both. I decided not to go back to having school aged children until I was more used to childminding.

Well, I feel much more confident now and my ds is going to be 4 in 2 weeks and is very lonely since same aged mindee left a few weeks ago.

Had a call last night for a boy who is starting all day sessions at school after Easter. He's not 5 yet but I believe that once he's doing 10 sessions a week, that's ok as long as he's over 4? Can you please confirm? Obviously I will check with the parents that he is going straight into full days, every day after Easter as this would make a difference.

Questions

1. Am I right about him being classed as an over 5 as long as attending school all day?
2. Do you charge the same hourly fee as normal? My rate is $3.80 an hour and I'd be needed from school pickup (around 3.10pm) til about 5.45pm. The school is probably about 5+ miles away at a guess? Certainly have to drive, it's in the sticks. Not sure when I'd have to leave but would you charge from the time you have to leave your house?
3. I'm not sure if I'm required during the school holidays? What do you lot do/find out about this side of things?
4. What to do after school? - when I had the children I had at the beginning, we used to go to the park, come home and play in the garden/do arts and crafts etc. I'm trying to decide what I should be doing? Do parents expect you to help with their homework? Or have the kids had enough work time and just want to have a snack, unwind etc? Any thoughts at all would be great
5. FOOD - this is VERY important for me to decide up front because I had big ps taker problems with one 8 yr old when I started - I can't have earnt a thing after the amount of food she ate!!! If they require a meal, fine. If they require only a snack, can you give me examples I can show the parents so we all know what's expected. I have my snack menu already but wasn't sure if more would be required for an after schooler?

I'm sure I'll have other questions

It's been left that they'll call me back on Tuesday as we're both about to go away. Then they'll arrange a meeting and at the end of the call, the father said 'don't let that space go!!' Of course I know very well they may not call but if they do, I want to know what I'm offering!

Thanks

Right I am a parent and my 6yo started with the CM when he started school at 4 1/2 and he definitely counted as a 5yo for her numbers then - I think they call them "rising 5s". I am happy for him to just relax after school rather than do too much in the way of activities, although often the CM stops at the rec outside school for a while and lets the children run around - often with mindees of other minders and other children who's Mums hang around too. I like this, it lets them let off steam and get exercise. He goes in the holiday and I think then that the CM should (and she does) provide more activity. She also charges slightly more for after school but reverts back to her full day rate in the holiday. I think it is 20p more per hour for before/after school.

Hi - Answering as a parent.

1. I think you are right as him counting as an over 5
2. I would expect to pay slightly more as less hours, a round up to 3 hours sounds good to me. (from someone who is paying)
3. Ask them,
4. If you offered to do homework with my dc I would love you forever - because they get too tired later and what would only take 5 mins at 4:00 would take 30 mins at 6:00
5. Ditto, if they are not picking up till 5:45, home by 6:00, dinner at 6:30 just makes bedtime too late.

So perfect schedule for me would be
3:10 pickup & home
3:30 drink & a bit of fruit
3:45 5/10 mins of homework, reading the school book which is all they would normally get at this age
5:00 dinner/supper - a proper meal

For all of that, I would be happy to pay £15 per session

I wouldn't expect a special activity, just some gentle play or run round the garden, though would be happy to skip homework some nights for a trip to the park

Hi looney, just started a school run morning and afternoon, about 10 mile round trip each way, (my old schoolies went to school on camp), I charge from 3.00 when the school releases them at normal rate 3.25, BUT I charge 30.00 per month petrol charge.

My schoolies, just love to do whatever to be honest, usually they have a snack (and yes do they eat!) then I do some reading with them, then they just play, outside on the trampoline if its the right weather and inside with anything they really fancy to do that day.

My CM doesn't do homework (but I have never requested it). She will provide a meal, but I don't request it apart from on Tuesday when DS has his swimming lesson she makes him a sandwich (turned into fishfingers, mash and brocolli last week) because it is too late afterwards for him to eat. She doesn't charge me for meals/snacks, even in the holidays.

2. I charge session rates - £4 for an hour before school and/or £12 for up to 6pm after school.

1. I ask parents if they need the place in holidays - contract will either say no place in school holidays or state the days they have booked in the holidays. £34 per day, reduced if attend all week.
2. I ask parents what they want to do about homework - with reception/yr 1 parents often want to do it with them. As they get older & have more homework parents like to know they have a quiet place at childminders. I offer help as necessary and supervised internet & I get books from library to support topic work.
3. I provide snack after school - its a sit down job/ take it or leave it, once they get down there's no more food til dinner time. Snack is variety of fruit, sometimes cheese & biscuits/crackers/breadsticks/rice cakes. Occasionally cake or biscuits as well as fruit. On occasion I'll do sausages, boiled eggs or similar.

i also list under miscellaneous charges on the contract:- School closure days (eg, heavy snow, staff strike), staff training days, bank holidays in the middle of school holidays, bank holidays in a school week.
also to avoid misunderstanding, state the name of the school whose term-dates the contract refers to.

HTH

is it the same school your ds will be going too?If so then thats great and I wouldnt charge for petrol.If its not the same school will u be able to do 2 school pick ups? My mindee's finish at 3.20 & 3.30 and I charge parents from 3.15.I also provide food & dont charge but Im really considereing changing this some way-either stop providing all together or just doing snacks. Fussy eating habits are effecting my sons normal healthy eating routine and Im not happy with that!
I also charge £3.50 for school runs compared to £3.00 for day children.

1. Am I right about him being classed as an over 5 as long as attending school all day? yes

2. Do you charge the same hourly fee as normal? My rate is $3.80 an hour and I'd be needed from school pickup (around 3.10pm) til about 5.45pm. The school is probably about 5+ miles away at a guess? Certainly have to drive, it's in the sticks. Not sure when I'd have to leave but would you charge from the time you have to leave your house?
   I would charge from time you have to leav house and for any part time mindes i charge £1 extra, you may want to ask for more if its very far for you?

3. I'm not sure if I'm required during the school holidays? What do you lot do/find out about this side of things?
   ask parent re holidays and if they need more/less care and if they want space kept but will not use it, you need to charge a retainer for space to be available once back at school..normally half normal fee.

4. What to do after school? - when I had the children I had at the beginning, we used to go to the park, come home and play in the garden/do arts and crafts etc. I'm trying to decide what I should be doing? Do parents expect you to help with their homework? Or have the kids had enough work time and just want to have a snack, unwind etc? Any thoughts at all would be great
   ALL those things sound fine, maybe help them with a bit of reading when they get in, then play..the rest is up to parents at home.

5. FOOD - this is VERY important for me to decide up front because I had big ps taker problems with one 8 yr old when I started - I can't have earnt a thing after the amount of food she ate!!! If they require a meal, fine. If they require only a snack, can you give me examples I can show the parents so we all know what's expected. I have my snack menu already but wasn't sure if more would be required for an after schooler?

snack only (fruit/cheese and breadsticks/yogurt)or extra for evening meal and give them all same amount(as long as you think it is a reasonable amount, then a dinner and desert is enough until they get home. Icharge £1.75 for evening meal for older ones(3plus)

hope some of this is of some use..good luck with getting them on

1. Am I right about him being classed as an over 5 as long as attending school all day? YES
2. Do you charge the same hourly fee as normal? My rate is $3.80 an hour and I'd be needed from school pickup (around 3.10pm) til about 5.45pm. The school is probably about 5+ miles away at a guess? Certainly have to drive, it's in the sticks. Not sure when I'd have to leave but would you charge from the time you have to leave your house? I CHARGE MY FULL HOURLY RATE AND ROUND IT TO THE NEAREST HALF HOUR
3. I'm not sure if I'm required during the school holidays? What do you lot do/find out about this side of things? ASK THE PARENTS OR DECIDE IF YOU WANT THEM IN THE HOLIDAYS THEN TELL THE PARENT WHAT YOU CAN OR CAN'T DO
4. What to do after school? - when I had the children I had at the beginning, we used to go to the park, come home and play in the garden/do arts and crafts etc. I'm trying to decide what I should be doing? Do parents expect you to help with their homework? Or have the kids had enough work time and just want to have a snack, unwind etc? Any thoughts at all would be great IF THE WEATERH IS FINE WE PLAY FOR AWHILE BEFORE COMING HOME - IETHER IN THE SCHOOL PLAYGROUND OR A TRIP TO THE PARK. HOME OFR A SNACK THEN PLAYING OR AN ACTIVITY OR BOTH. I DON'T DO HOMEWORK BUT THE PARENTS DONT WANT ME TO AS THE CHILDREN ARE ONLY 5 AND 6
5. FOOD - this is VERY important for me to decide up front because I had big ps taker problems with one 8 yr old when I started - I can't have earnt a thing after the amount of food she ate!!! If they require a meal, fine. If they require only a snack, can you give me examples I can show the parents so we all know what's expected I PROVIDE A SNACK AS PART OF MY CHARGE BUT CHARGE £1.50 FOR AN EVENING MEAL IF REQURED AT 5.00

i have 10 children after school all aged from 5 to 10 yrs old

1. if he is in 10 sessions of education he is classed as over 5
2. i charge the same hourly fee as i charge all the children £3 per hour raising to £3.20 in April
3. you need to know if your needed in the hols ask mum, i have the queistion on my enrolment forms
4. i just bring the children home and they play outside in the garden or on the p.c i have games out for them to play with i do their homework with them only 4-5 pages of reading a night i do art work with them when it is a special occasion such as mothers day, easter never ever put tv on
5. each child has a mat with their name on which is prepared just b4 school, on their mat they have 2 biscuits and fruit and sometimes a note to say they can have an ice- lolly/crisps if the child is still here at 5.20pm they have a proper sit down meal with myself and my family (£1 charge)

hope this helps

Thanks guys. Not been around as at my parents now so enjoyed a nice 5 hour trip in the car!! Now got the laptop set up but off to bed as soooo tired. Will have a read of all your comments tomorrow! Thanks so much, lots of help there!!

Night night xx

Right, he's called back and is coming with his wife and little boy on Sunday morning

As I've never seen this school, I've been checking some things out and have been told it's a NIGHTMARE for parking. Most people arrive half an hour earlier for find a decent enough space. With me having a 20 month old and 3/4 month old (atm), I'll need to walk the double buggy and my ds so definitely would want to do the early arriving bit. So if school releases at 3.10pm like he's sure it does (will make sure confirmed), then I need to be there by say 2.40pm which at a guess would mean leaving mine around 2.20ish (need to test the run first). So would it be fair to charge from then? I would be making a special trip as I don't currently do school runs, just pick up ds after morning nursery.

The other thing I need to think about is the toddlers nap. She usually naps in the travel cot upstairs from say 2-3/3.30. So I need to think about whether I want to do just nap in the car or see if I can bring the nap forward (easier said than done atm as her baby sister isn't into a proper routine as yet - getting there slowly though).

If I charge £3.80 an hour for a full day, should I charge more an hour then?

I asked on the phone about requirements for school holidays etc and he admitted that they are new to the whole childminding thing and would like to discuss options at our meeting. So, if they decide on Term Time only, they have to make their own arrangements for inset days etc??? is that right? Then I advertise school holiday only care? Obviously I'd prefer them to want me for the whole lot but I want to make sure everything is clear in my head as I just don't know what they want at this stage.

Think that's it, gosh I feel dizzy with all these questions going round in my head (in case you hadn't noticed, I've been asking lots on here recently about different things, don't know if i'm coming or going )

Thanks again you lovely ladies! x

Oh yeah, before I go, someone mentioned charging for petrol each month. Presume this means you don't claim on expenses. So, what's the benefit of this way round? Not digging, just very tired and trying to make it all clear in my head

Come'on then TP & KM, I wanna go to bed but waiting for your input on this one now!!

Will go and have a wash etc and check before I log off

... keep washing ... am just going to read what you've written ...

inset days are termtime - so you will have him
petrol money - your insurance will be invalid if you take this

Careful if your own child won't go to this school - you could build up a clientelle (sp) then have to give them all notice when your chuild goes to school

You will be out for over an hour on a school run - is that acceptable to you - it might even approach 1.5 htrs

Yes charge more

haven't made it up there yet, decided to email the other lady about the adhoc care

Off to do it now!

Well I was until I saw KM's reply

You are so right, what a div am I, of course I'd do inset days if they want me to. Well, hold on (I am very tired! ) what if I had someone for school hols only? What if they also wanted me for inset days??? Not quite sure how this would work? HELP!!

Thanks about the petrol, I won't charge. Is this because you'd be classed as a taxi? Presume that's it!

Kate, I know what you're saying about when my ds goes to school and I was going to say to them that I would have to rethink it all next year. I'm not sure when ds is moving up now there's all these changes. He would have been due to go up in Jan 08 but teachers are saying these changes may mean he wouldn't go up til Easter or Sept 08??? I thought the changes didn't come into force til May 08? Has this changed? Whatever, I still need to think about this very carefully (suppose my desperate need for a playmate for ds and extra money fogged all this! ) Maybe I should phone them and explain about it being temporary? They do know he goes to nursery in different area but that's all that was said about that. Also, I don't know until end of this month where my ds will be going and if he doesn't get a place where the nursery is, I will cry then appeal which will take time. Oh, what to do, what to do????

It is a long time for a school run isn't it. I was all set for this until I heard about the parking problem. It really is a problem isn't it.

Do any of you other childminders go a long way and end up out a long time for your school runs?

I'm getting a big headache now but thanks KM as it's raised questions that I really do need to think about.

Does arriving later just mean that you'd just have to park further away, and then have to walk further? Or is there just very limited parking altogether (so you have to arrive earlier)? Do you have to drive there anyway, or is it walkable from home?

I don't charge from when I leave home, but it is something that I think is fair. You wouldn't really be able to charge from 2.20, so would have to round it up/down to 2.15 or 2.30? I guess it would depend on how long you are minding the child afterwards.

Personally, I charge the same rate for everyone; I know minders who charge more for before/after-schoolers because they do less hours. If you charged more, would you be charging your normal rate for school holidays? (I charge the same rate because I'd end up in knots remembering who paid what/when/why!)

My toddler mindees tend to sleep on the school run, which I don't think is an ideal sleeping arrangement. The parents know it happens, have chosen me despite this, so everyone is happy. I've never tried to deliberately change a mindee's routine, so don't know how feasible this would be with yours.

... go and wash a bit more, and don't forget to brush your teeth ... am still reading your questions ...

... I knew Katymac would get in there before me ...

TP, I'm still here

IMPOSSIBLE to walk it, it's in the sticks and about 10/15/20 min drive away.

I've been told the parking is TERRIBLE and it's about lack of spaces, not just the nightmare of parking. Apparently it can also get flooded in bad weather.

I do worry about the nap routine changing and would therefore prefer to try for an earlier nap at say 1.30pm which should be quite do-able. I'm now more worried about being out that long with 3 children under 5 stuck in a car for a while.

[looney runs upstairs to brush her teeth and have a really good wash before Theprisoner comes to lock me up!]

When I do term-time only contracts, I regard the inset days as holidays. So, no, I don't charge for them. I am more than happy to do term-time only contracts though, other CMs don't (so may charge retainers for holidays?)

I also didn't think you could charge for petrol expenses (you would put it on your own tax expenses), but I know of childminders who charge a "collection fee" on top of normal hourly rates. I have no idea what it is for!

I drive three miles for my school run. The little ones get excited about "going to big school to get the big children" - it has become part and parcel of our daily routine. They always ask who we will be collecting. They usually choose a toy/book to take in my bus. If we arrive early, we either go for a walk, have stories or a sing-song. Parking is relatively limited for me - the later I am, the further from the school I will be, so the further we will have to walk. I don't find it a major problem, and the children certainly don't.

So long as you are honest with parents about not knowing how long you would be able to mind their child because of your own family commitments (ie. school/nursery for your ds), then it is up to them to decide.

... you must be very clean by now ...

... you painting your nails too? ...

TP, I'm in midway through, brushed my teeth then thought i'd pop in the office and check quickly hehe.

I forgot to answer your other question, yes I'd put the rate down in the holiday's IF I charged more during school time.

Still confused about the whole inset day bit. At the moment (based on size of old house), I'm only reg'd for 1 5-8 yr old. So, if they want me Term Time only and say someone else wanted me School Hols only. What would happen if they both had the same inset day? The other week, every school in our district had inset day.

I personally have no problem in walking further to the school, I'd quite like it actually. It's just the feedback so far from other childminders (nice ones) has been OH NO, NOT xxx school - nightmare!! Tbh, I thought nightmare parking was all part of school pickup???? I need to find out more details about this! As long as it's a safe walk, I really don't mind doing it.

I reckon ds and toddler would also get excited about the big kids (although it would only be 1 rising 5). I used to pick 2 kids up from another school when I first started so ds and mindee would have been 2½ at the time. They loved it Ds is 4 next week and still talks about them when we drive past the road that takes you there

Ok, so I need:

1. Double check about this whole parking thing at the school
2. Check that mum of 2 girls I have doesn't mind the whole school run (although she's fully aware that with her reducing hours, having discount for 2 etc, I'm struggling and I think she's happy to help)
3. Think about whether or not I'd want to charge a retainer for the hols
4. Phone parents (if all above is ok) and let them know it would only be temporary

Can I ask 2 more questions:

• how many of you charge a retainer during the hols? I'm worried about drop in income as not sure there's much call for holiday only care (IF they want term time only)

• does anyone know any more about this whole foundation stage and the changes for children to rising 5's etc?

God no, took me that long to read this and type my reply