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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Im thinking about becoming a child miner for older children. What do I need to know?

24 replies

amistillsexy · 21/04/2017 08:56

Having spent the past 2 weeks with a house full of kids, not all of them my own, and finding, strangely that i enjoy it, I've started to think about offering an after school 'pick up and look after' service, and a holiday 'stay all day' service.
I've read that I don't need to register with ofsted if I'm only looking after kids over 8, which will be the case. I used to teach in KS2, so I feel very comfortable with kids this age, and my own 3 are aged 9, 11 and 13. What I don't know is what othr rules and regs I need to conform to, or which I can ignore.
My idea is that I would pick up extra children when I collect my own (I have a 7 seater, so would be able to collect 4 extra from school), and that any young secondary school pupils could come along on the school bus. I think I could accommodate 7 more children in total. My USP is that I would pck up on short notice, and would be happy to have children on an occasional basis, giving parents the opportunity to be flexible over accepting extra work, staying late, etc and not being tied to 3.15 pick ups. My pricing would be by the hour, and I'd be happy to keep children until picked up, so parents could relax if stuck on the motorway (a common occurrence round here).

I'd offer them a snack when they got in, and serve tea around 5 for those who were staying later. They would have space and time for homework,which I would help with, then play/relax/chill until picked up.
I have a large, rambling house, but no outside space to speak of, so they'd be indoors unless we all decamped to the park,which is 2 minutes away so very possibly I'd be taking them there or for a walk in the woods with a picnic tea in summer. Inside, we have lots of stairs, and can't really shut off rooms as it's all open plan, so apart from bedrooms, all rooms will be accessed by the children. I also have a Woodburning stove in the kitchen diner, which will be lit in the winter. I have a good cage type guard around it, but I wonder if it would be allowed even so. I'm intrestd to hear from anyone who knows about this.

I'm sure the would be a demand for this type of childminding. Our school's after school club is not well liked by parents or children, since the woman running it isn't nice to the children and takes every opportunity to over charge parents. Many parents don't have family living nearby who they can call on at short notice, and there are only so many favours one can owe to friends and neighbours! Once they reach secondary age, there is nowhere they can go after school, apart from clubs, which means they miss the school bus back home, so from Y7 many children are home alone till parents come in from work, which is a big worry for many parents.

I was wondering if there is anyone out the who has done or is doing something similar-a looser, more flexible arrangement of childminding than that offered to pre school age children, and what I will need to do to start up. A checklist of jobs I need to do would be very useful!

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amistillsexy · 21/04/2017 08:58

That would be a child minder. Child miners are generally frowned upon 😂

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amistillsexy · 21/04/2017 09:51

Just bumping in the hope that somone will be along with some advice for me soon! 😊

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Orthanc · 21/04/2017 09:54

This page seems to cover a lot of questions: www.childcare.co.uk/information/setting-up-a-childminding-business.

donajimena · 21/04/2017 09:56

No advice but if you were in my area I would definitely use the service

Snap8TheCat · 21/04/2017 10:00

How much of an income do you need to make from your work? From experience (I'm a childminder) it sounds a lovely idea but you wouldn't make very much money.

amistillsexy · 21/04/2017 10:15

Oh thanks for the replies!
Orthanc, I'll check out that link when I've sorted the kids (one's just turned up. He'll be a main contender for this service-his mum and dad own a shop and he gets really bored sitting in the shop all day, so he has asked to come to me all holiday. Today was meant to be a day for me and my kids to clean the house...spare boy is only here on condition he joins in, and he's still decided to come!).
Donajimina, would the woodburner/lack of garden/rather hippy ish disregard for rules both you at all? Do you mind me asking what you'd like from such a service, part from what I've outlined, which bits you would particular welcome, etc.?
Snap8TheCat, to be honest, I'm not needing a lot of money from this. I have other things to do during school hours, so it's only for a bit of extra cash. I'm happy to do this for the next 5 or 6 years while my kids are this age and stage, so I'm home for them when they need me. I might as well be home for some others as well! I was thinking that I'd look at how much it would cost me (insurance, food, fuel, extra toys, etc), then work out a reasonable fee. I'd take into account how much people are already prepared to pay the after school club, but I think I can ask for a bit more for the flexibility of my service.
Any ideas on how I could develop a pricing structure, and what I should be looking at when I'm working out what to charge?

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Snap8TheCat · 21/04/2017 11:08

Ok good. Things to consider...

Will you be registering with OFSTED on the voluntary register? Might appeal to parents more so they can claim tax credits/ salary sacrifice schemes.

Don't underestimate how much the extra food will cost.

The hike in your electricity bill.

Will you charge for cancellations?

Hourly or session rates?

More for ad-hoc or discount for a regular booking?

How will people book? What if you are full?

Payment in advance or arrears?

Car insurance, PLI, ICO, first aid course,

Will you take them on outings? Will you charge extra or absorb the cost? If charging extra what will you do if a parent says no to the trip?

Extra wear and tear on your home and belongings.

Good luck.

Orthanc · 21/04/2017 12:42

Hope the link helps when you get to it!

I would say there'll be a big difference in expectations from parents with a paid service, and also it's different having friends kids round who you know and trust etc.

Speaking of, would your friends be happy (and able) to pay for what's effectively been a free babysitting service so far? What will you do if they refuse to pay but kids still want to come over?

feelingsickaboutit · 21/04/2017 13:28

You'll need a mountain of food to feed those children (especially secondary school aged boys!). Do not underestimate cost of food. I did notice that most local holiday clubs etc ask parents to provide food for the day.
Also with a new goverment scheme soon to be available to parents more parets will be able to claim help towards childcare cost which they won't be able to use with you if you're not Osfsted registered.

thisgirlrides · 21/04/2017 17:29

I think it could be great with some clear rules/structure in place first. I think the slightly bohemian relaxed environment will appeal to older kids and you could be very popular. A few thoughts off the top of my head-

As others have said, food for older kids can be a massive drain. I would make sure you charge extra for any food inc snacks as it really does add up (& price it properly based on adult portions) but I would also avoid doing a proper tea unless you're planning on being open beyond 6:30. Older kids can easily wait until after 6/6:30 to eat dinner if they've had a decent snack. Get kids to bring a packed lunch in the holidays.

I would still consider going on the voluntary register with ofsted so parents can use it for childcare vouchers or tax credits - all bar 1 of my 6 families use vouchers & you can't unless you're registered.

By all means charge hourly & allow last minute booking etc but I would charge a premium for this and offer a discount for advance regular bookings. Much more stability if income for you and parents more likely to book in advance if they get a discount.

Consider day trip/outing costs in the holidays. There's no way I'd want to be indoors all summer with a gang of older kids & some things may end up costing - even the odd ice-cream in the park gets silly when there's lots of you!
Good luck Smile

Willow2017 · 21/04/2017 17:57

If you are providing food you will need to be registered with Environmental Health and do a food handling course and be inspected.

Course can be done in a couple of hours or online.

Be VERY specific on what you are offering, what snacks, what hours and how much. You will be amazed at how some people will try to take the p with a new childcare. Ask around if there is a list of parents who have been dropped by local cms etc due to their behaviour/ non payment. Its the same with any new business the chancers are first at the door.

Yukbuck · 23/04/2017 10:32

Also you will have to become self employed so keep on top of your accounts. There are lots of things you can claim back for through tax once you're a childminder. I forget off the top of my head but there's a youtuber who is a childminder and she talks about it.

donajimena · 23/04/2017 12:53

Sorry I've only just come back to thread. The environment sounds lovely. My priority would be a safe and happy environment for my children.
If it helps with your research my son has SN and although he's quite independent he's not able to be left at home for a long period of time.
I'm working part time to accommodate his needs but by high school I thought I'd be working full time.
I'm sure there are many out there like me!

amistillsexy · 25/04/2017 22:04

Thanks for all your advice! I've only just had chance to come back to this thread and I've spent some time making noyes of everyone's points. It's good that some of you would appreciate a service like this.
Donajimina...having to be home for my son with asd is the reason I'm thinking of doing this, so I'm with you on that one. He couldn't be left for any length of time, and if anything happened that he hadn't been prepared for, who knows what he might decide was a sensible option! Luckily, he enjoys younger children's company, so he'll be happy with them coming into our home. I also believe there needs to be more childcare for older children with SEND, so they'll be welcome here too 😊.

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amistillsexy · 25/04/2017 22:16

I appreciate the advice about food and setting boundaries around hours and payments. I'm quite good at standing up for myself and saying what i want, so I'll be sure to think carefully about different scenarios and draw up a policy that covers a.d hoc as well as regular bookings. I can see how people could try it on with this, so I need to work that out. As for food, I love cooking and am used to providing for hoards of hungry kids but I have been looking at costings of some family favourites, as part of my research into how much to charge.
Please keep the thoughts and ideas coming...I'm taking notes here! I'm sorry I can't answer individualsas I'm on my phone and can't scroll up easily 😐

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donajimena · 26/04/2017 07:06

I wish you all the best. There is definitely a need for this service (imho)

heron98 · 26/04/2017 09:25

Sounds like a nice idea but I don't really see why secondary children would need looking after after school.

60percentbanana · 26/04/2017 10:55

I think the realities of providing very flexible ad hoc care are more tedious than you'd realise. Parents (rightly, from their perspective) will often chop and change hours to save money where they can, which is fine with reasonable notice, but not so much when you're waiting in on a summer morning for a parent to arrive and they don't show. Or when parent collects two hours late (and Sod's law it's usually on a night when you've got a doctors appointment or theatre tickets) because they've been unavoidably delayed on the motorway, only to let slip they've actually been in the pub. Yes, be flexible, but you have to protect yourself otherwise you never get any free time or be able to make plans.

I wouldn't work without being registered - firstly because of the payment issues above, but secondly because you'd struggle to get public liability cover without registration I think. If you teach during the day then your livelihood depends on you being ok to work in a position of trust - it only takes one allegation, injury or inappropriate behaviour from a child and you could find yourself either personally liable to compensate if you were judged not to have taken reasonable steps to prevent the injury or, in the case of an allegation have your day job threatened too - pli usually includes legal cover to support you with that. I know that sounds far fetched but it happens more than you realise, most cms at some point have had a parent fall out over money or availability and start to make threats as a result.

donajimena · 26/04/2017 10:59

heron did you read the thread?

amistillsexy · 26/04/2017 21:45

heron there are a suprising number of children for whom being home alone from 3.30 till 6.30 every evening is less than ideal.
They dont all have additional needs, either! They may be more sensitive than most, or more prone to brooding when left alone. ..They might be likely to be victims of bullying or simply enjoy company and the safety-net of having an adult around.
For various reasons, I'm going to be at home after school for the foreseeable future, so I'll be here for my kids as they grow older, and I'm happy to be there for a few others as well.

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keepingThingsGoing · 03/05/2017 13:38

I'm a childminder and had some afters school children when I first registered but found it too much for my own school aged children to cope with and now only look after toddlers. A few things to consider:

Will your own children's room be totally off bounds? What if your own child is friends with one of the mindees and wants to invite them into their bedroom, but doesn't want the others coming in? This can cause a lot of arguments and resentment.

Will your own children be able to have friends over for play dates or will your car be too full?

What if your own child really doesn't get on with one of the mindees? Or they might be friends at first and then have a falling out.

What sort of food do you feed your own children? Children this age can be incredibly fussy. What if your mindees ask you for biscuits, crisps, etc. and you don't want your own children to eat these on a daily basis?

How will your own children feel when they want to tell you about their day or need help with homework but you're too busy to listen because you're sorting out other children?

What if your own children want to do an after school activity?

jannier · 03/05/2017 14:46

I have had children's friends become formal mindee's and in every case its resulted in the friendship ending so would avoid that.

After school 7 older children who cant get out is very hard especially boys they have been coped up all day and have too much energy so play fighting wrestling and running riot is common unless you get them out every day. Their other occupation is eating and then eating.

Id also check insurance not only for car and personal injury but your household one....and consider getting plumbing covered as they do tend to go over board on the loo roll....we average 3 blocked drains a year every one in school holidays...yuck.

My own children found it okay when thy were under 13 but then started to resent older children around all the time and wanted some peace....its okay when its occasional but when you have commitments and they want a day off its totally different....then there are the days they are off colour and you still have to get children 7 is an awful lot every day I find 2 is fine...matched pairs...3 is hard 4 okay if they are friends...more is arguments if its longer than a few evenings and the novelty has worn off.....children who have not grown up with me are much harder.

CheerfulMuddler · 05/05/2017 13:45

I would definitely use a service like this.

I'd be okay with your lackadaisical hippy ways. More important to me would be that I liked you and my kid liked you and was happy.

What I would be worried about would be what happens when one of your SN kids has a meltdown, that sets off one of the other SN kids, and suddenly my eight-year-old is left with no adult able to keep an eye on him. I wouldn't expect him to be the centre of attention at all times, but I would want to know he was safe.

I'd also often need you at short notice, as I'd tend to need you when I had a sudden unexpected lot of extra work, so that would be key for me - recognise it's not necessarily in your control though.

isupposeitsverynice · 05/05/2017 13:51

I think mining is a dying industry and who wants to buy older children anyway?

Sorry I couldn't resist Grin glad there's lots of useful posters around with proper advice

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