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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

CM CLUB: i think one of the mums is 'minding' un registered????

15 replies

StrawberrySnowflakes · 09/02/2007 14:34

chatting to her on way in today, she has two dc....had another 3 with her, normally has girl in dd's class whos mums just gone back to work, whom i was supposed to be looking after after school, but im not and this woman is???..makes things difficult when i was only CM round here and now someone 'may' be doing it un reg and cheaper?????????????

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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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PandaG · 09/02/2007 14:38

Could be wrong Strawberry - but isn't it so that if the time is

dmo · 09/02/2007 14:41

yes but word of mouth is best
just keep doing a fab job and soon they will be flooding your door

if you think this mum is doing more than 2 hours have a dig around

Original poster

StrawberrySnowflakes · 09/02/2007 14:52

im not about her having the child in dd's class(it was messy days/hours tbh), and pandaG your right, i know you can mind for 2-2 1/2 hours without being reg but she must just scrape through as she collects them and take them home too(lives next road from me so i see them lots)..just a bit , that i took ages to train and become reg and this 'friend' is doing same job for people i could be working for as theres no one else(registered) close so i thought i had it made!..obv not

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sarz · 09/02/2007 15:37

I am sure there must be rules/laws about this?? i was talking to a mum the other day who was going to leave her child with a friend (she is 1yr old) full time, and i asked about her being registered and she said 'no shes not, but she has her own kids and knows what she is doing' it then unfolded that she was just going to give her cash in hand, no tax or anything!!!! Do people really take these risks? Its going to be up to about 10 grand that she will pay over the year!! not just a couple of hours here and there!!

Original poster

StrawberrySnowflakes · 09/02/2007 16:08

the amount of people that ive some across who will take their children to un reg child careres just to save a few quid(and most wont, cos most people get tax credits)is shocking and sad for those who take the time, money and effort to do it properly

OP posts:

nannynick · 09/02/2007 23:38

In England, the rule is 2 hours per day. This 2 hours can be split over the day, but in a 24 hour period, if care is provided (outside of the child's own home) for more than 2 hours, then it must be registered care.

I seem to recall there is a loophole, which permits longer period of care to take place, but it's only for a set number of days per year - think it was 6 days. If necessary, you would need to look that up - but I suspect in your situation you know this person is caring for children for more than 6 days per year.

Continue chatting to her, see what information you can gather, such as how long she cares for the children, how often, also note regular routines such as walking to/from school (this information can help the regulator catch them in the act).
How does this person get their work? Could a friend of yours, contact her to ask about childcare? That way you can with luck find out about payments. The more info you can get, the better.

Suggest to her that she becomes a Registered Childminder (after all, the regulator will probably just insist that she registers, so will still be in competition). If you help her become legal (if she isn't at the moment), she may become your friend.

BassMama · 09/02/2007 23:48

I have a question which might be really stupid.. please bear with me!

I have a CM who has my son 2 days a week. she is fully qualified and I pay her cash but itsd all done properly (she pays tax etc, i claim tax credits for childcare)

Amyway, I also have a friend, who very regularly babysits for my DS. I dont pay her obviously but I do always put a tenner into his lunch box incase something happens, or to pay for travel costs, entrance fees (she takes him out a lot) or whatever. For ages my ds ALWAYS came home with the tenner still in his lunchbox, but recently I have been insisting that she takes it cos i know she spends money on him (she bought him new trousers the other week as he had a very big poo and it leaked onto his trousers, and she got them from Gap so not cheap..)

Anyway, technically i am paying her. Is this okay?

nannynick · 10/02/2007 00:17

If your friend comes to your home to care for your DS, then they are a babysitter/nanny.
Any care between 6pm and 2am is unregulated in England, though by the sounds of it your friend is babysitting during the day.

You say your DS comes home with his lunchbox, which implies to me that your child is at this persons house. The 2 hour rule would apply in this case, and your friend should be registered as a childminder, if this arrangement is occuring on a regular basis. The rule is that if there is ANY form of reward - does not need to be money, can be flowers, box of chocolates or I suppose even a trade in services.

To get around this 2 hour rule, your friend needs to Babysit your child, at your home, not their own. Then they would be classed as a nanny, and thus not currently required by law to register. As they go out a lot, they could collect your child from your home, and return him to your home, but must not go to her own home with the child, for more than 2 hours in any day.

I'm not a lawyer, but that's my understanding of the regulations in England.

BassMama · 10/02/2007 00:27

Oh my gosh!

Dont know if the fact we are in Scotland makes a difference? And its not regular as such, its actually very random, but pretty frequent.

Yes, she usually takes him out for the day, and very often to her house for his nap. I wouldn't feel i could ask her to babysit the way she does but tell her she had to be in my house all day, or indeed tell her she had to come and pick him up and drop him off! Bit cheeky.

She likes to take him to her work, and to visit other friends of ours (i never get time) and her parents and her grandmother, who all love my wee boy! I wouldnt want to have to stop all that.

Its not like i give her money, she is pretty reluctant to take it, but its only been the last wee while and i am really MAKING her take it so i oculd explain the situation and just stop. But i feel like im taking advantage. And, really a tenner for mosy of a day is nothing!

nannynick · 10/02/2007 09:29

Scotish law could certainly be different. You could contact The Care Commission to establish what the rules are in Scotland. Found a page on their website about Childminders and the 2 hour rule appears to be the same.

It would be her that is breaking the Law, not you.

The money isn't the issue, it's caring for the child at her home that causes the trouble, as in reality if she or you ever had to prove that she was providing care for 'no reward', it could be very hard to prove that she does not gain something from caring for your child.

Try not to worry about it too much, especially if it is not happening on a regular basis. However, do remember that if anything goes wrong - then the person caring for your child will not have insurance, and they would not be in a good position legally.

Please don't shoot the messenger... sometimes with this sort of thing, it's best not to ask the question - as you may not like the answer

Isyhan · 10/02/2007 11:54

Im a childminder but loads of mums round here look after each others children. One mum does it one day, the other the next. They are not being paid just alternating care.

BassMama · 10/02/2007 15:21

Oh thank you. It was something i really was not aware of at all - she is my best friend and its just babysitting!

I'm not going to worry about it i cant see that anyone will care!

Thanks though.

chel86 · 13/02/2007 16:45

This bugs me as well. I'm fully qualified CM (got registration through in Jan) and I still have no children. BUT I have found out that the children who were going to start with me, until their mum said she couldn't afford it, are with one of the mum's at the playgroup who is minding unregistered.

As I am one of the few CM in my area with vacancies it did make me quite angry that she had offered her services for cash in hand, would have way over her numbers if registered, and because of this can obviously afford to accept a lower rate than I charge, which is not high anyway!

What gives her the right to take business away from me and other suffering CMs out their who took the time to become qualified!

nannynick · 13/02/2007 18:53

chel - it's a pain when laws are not enforced. While you can report the unregistered minding to the appropriate body (Ofsted, Care Commission etc), in reality what will they do? Probably ask them to go through the registration process, rather than prosecute. Repeat offenders will be dealt with more severley (there are some tribunal cases listed) but I do wonder how many cases there are that get to that stage each year.

BassMama, the person caring for your child is not Babysitting... they are Childminding. The difference is in the place at which the work is done - babysitting ONLY APPLIES when it is at the Childs Home, whereas Childminding takes place at the Carers home.

Original poster

StrawberrySnowflakes · 13/02/2007 19:44

i think its different for Bassmama, i was always farmed out to friends and family when i was a tot and mum always put a fiver in my pocket in case of emergencies, this is what shes doing IIRC..as a cm, i wouldnt see this as wrong

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