duties for part-time nanny - kind of think mine is slacking but before I have The Talk...

[kitegirl]

Help me to figure out what to do... Our nanny works three days a week, I am a SAHM and apart from a half-hearted postgrad project and running errands etc I am at home most of the time, sharing the care of my two DSs, aged 2.10 and 6 months. She is a bona fide, qualified, English nanny with 10 years experience, and we are paying her the going rate plus of course all the tax, NI on top. We have a good relationship, she's been with us for 4 and a bit months.
She doesn't do any laundry, even the kids, apart from a cursory tidy up in the play room she generally leaves the kitchen as is with dirty dishes etc, and apart from chucking fish fingers in the oven, unless I specifically request a certain dish, does little cooking, I do all that. If I ask her to take DS1 to the park she will do it but doesn't initiate outings. She used to be good at finding stuff to do with DS1 but more and more she tends to put a DVD on for him or have him do puzzles etc, DS1 is good at playing on his own (too good!) so it's easy for her to leave him to play. And, DS1 goes to nursery on one of the days when she is working, so she just has DS2 to look after. On that day, during his naps, she reads a book or a magazine, and once DH even saw her reading a book with DS2 in his bouncy chair playing with a toy.

To top it all, since beginning of the year she brings her new dog to work (DS1loves the dog and we have a lab so no big deal I thought). I agreed as wanted to show that am a nice caring employer. It transpired that the dog is not house trained and last week shat on the carpet in my baby's bedroom. I obviously told her that it cannot happen again. This week she has called in sick for the whole week. Not to mention that her fussing after her dog distracts her from her job.

After this lengthy rant, what would you say? Also, is it unreasonable to expect your nanny to have higher standards than yourself - ie, whereas I might resort to a dvd to keep DS1 quiet if I have to feed the little one and put the washing on and pay bills all at the same time, so is it hypocritical to say to my nanny that she should not let ds1 watch dvds during the day? or if I have to use jars/pots if I am rushing around but I should expect her to feed freshly made purees for DS2? And how many sickies do you think is reasonable? So far I have paid the full whack when she has been off. As for her contract, we used a template from the agency.

Thanks!

she's having you on. that's babysitting not childcare

It sounds to me like she is 'testing the boundaries'. You are going to have to have a chat at some stage to establish some ground rules. If you want to keep her, I reckon I would have a 'review' where you sit down together without the children around. Just make it an opportunity for you both to raise issues - almost like a PDP at work.

Start by praising the bits that you like, then move onto any contentious issues.

Perhaps sit together and agree the list of ground rules - number of outings per week, activities per day, food, cleaning duties etc.

It will probably help you both know where you stand, and she may even be grateful to know the expectations.

my nanny used to cook for the children (proper meals), take them out, do art etc with them. They never had the tv on. She also used to do their washing and tidy up after herself (the whole house was left very tidy at the end of her day), although not clean. If she had time she would iron the children's clothes.

I would say your nanny is definitely having you on - she is like an au pair rather than a qualified nanny. And the dog thing is just horrible, sorry.

I did expect higher standards from my nanny - she can go home at the end of the day and gets a proper night's sleep. So I would not be happy with a dvd or tv really.

perjaps she lacks 'get up and go'.

why not say 'now weve got to know each other, i've been wanting to add a bit more structure to the jkids days (y'know - nopt long til nursery for ds1, lets get him used to activities). then suggest a couple of clubs she might like to take him to/you;d like him to do painying once or twice a week/your friends kids knows ... see if she'll respond to being asked to step up like a professionsl. another time you might suggest about housework and food.

On food, why not ask her to get ds involved in cooking to teasch him healthy eating? Say, she could take him to the market, pick b out some veggies, he could wash, chop soft ones/mix salad dressing.

Just saw this, and, although I don't have a nanny, if I did, I would expect her to do some bloody work. You are paying her to work for you - you wouldn't employ a gardener to sit on a sun lounger reading a book (that's your job after he's gone home).

I agree with kiff - she's babysitting.

Does she have another job? If so, do you know what duties she has with her other employer?

I'm afraid to say that I don't pay sick pay. I know I'm probably alone on this one but there you have it. We pay our nanny top whack and I like to think she has a good job but I do expect her to take the initiative and take the dses out somewhere every day.

I don't think it's at all hypocritical for you to expect her not to plonk them in front of a dvd. As a SAHM myself I tend to do all the boys' cooking but that's because a) I love it and b) our nanny isn't usually back from wherever they've been until just before their supper time so I would rather do the cooking and ensure they have more time doing things.

I don't envy you having to have the talk. Good luck!

You need to have A Talk. Like Kiff's suggestion of tackling one thing at a time.

Kitegirl: Just crashing in here as I'm busy with work, but in our 5+ years of employing nannies, they have each had different strengths but they have all tidied up after the children; done the children's laundry; organised a daily activity outside or inside the home; cooked a home-made lunch and often tea for the children and done any children related errands. The last three nannies have also done the food shopping and cooked one big meal that the children could eat for tea and we could eat in the evening (plus nanny, plus partner as they live in). Admittedly we have had fantastic nannies, but bar the food shopping and cooking, I don't think that is too much to ask. And I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a nanny to have higher standards as long as your expectation on food, activities etc. were made clear to her before she took on the role. A nanny is a professional and this is her full-time job; I'm a rank amateur and fit in childcare after my day-job. I need to reserve the weekly quota of 'bad food' and dvds for the weekends!

Oh bugger - I've written about nannies again. Sorry Zippitippitoes.

Ok sitting the children in front of the TV IS a problem... no proffesional nanny should have the telly on for more than 1 short programme at a time, unless either themselves or the child is ill or EXTREAMLY tired IMO

leaving the kitchen as she finds it with dirty dishes etc is NOT a problem. IMO you should expect a nanny to clear up after herself, but should NOT exepct them to tidy yourmess in the kitchen.

as for washing, yes i would expect her to do some, but not all of the kids washing. If you want all the childrens washing done, then you need to employ a fulltime nanny IMO. same with ironing.

I dont see any reason why she couldnt chance the childrens sheets on the same day each week, and stick in another load of kids clothes another day though.

also going rates + tax and NI on top:
well yes as you emploey a nanny you are legally obliged to employ her and the tax and NI are actually hers and part of HER wage, that as employer you pass onto the government.

on the other had i Do think you can expect her to cook the children nutritouse meals (so long as the nutritiouse ingredients are there!)

You certainly dont have to have her dog around if it doesnt suit you, especially if the dog gets more attention that the children

As for sick days i know many nannies who in several years have taken 0 days sick at all. I had had no days sick ever until last february, when my hand was so badly infected i was nearly admitted to hopsital for IV antibiotics! the Dr refused to let me drive and hence i couldnt work. So that is 2 sick days in 7 years for me, and i know many nannies who have takne less than that!

My comments for what they are worth. Note: I don't expect you to agree with me, and certainly may not!

Reading your first few sentences, I wonder why you even have a nanny. It is your parental choice to have someone help with childcare of course, but if you find the arrangement to not be working well, from how you describe things you could change to an alternative type of provider quite easily.

I do not know what is written in the contract between you and your nanny. Templates from agencies are often quite lacking, and need to be used as a starting point for a contract. Section on Duties will usually need to be amended/added as well as what constitutes Gross Misconduct. As your nanny has been with you for a few months, perhaps it's time to have a Contract Review and let your employee know your expectations - plus document those expectations. Also good opportunity for employee to give you feedback as well, are they happy in their job for instance?

Outings - Winter is a hard time for anyone with young children. Getting out and about can be tricky, but effort should be made so that children (and carer) get daily exercise.
Perhaps you can sit down with your nanny and make up a Outings Folder, which contains leaflets of local places to visit, maps for local walks, swimming pool timetable, transport timetables etc. If I get stuck for something to do, my little ones love to sit on a train. Simple things like going on a train, bus, boat, hovercraft are often greatly enjoyed by children.

I feel you were very brave to let your nanny bring her Dog to work. If that isn't working out, then be firm and tell her that her dog is no longer welcome. It's your house after all.

Sickness - It's Tuesday, and she's called in Sick for the entire week? I hope she's told you what illness she has. When she returns, do a Return-to-Work interview, so that you can record why she was off sick. As a caring employer you want to know about any thing that may be causing difficulties, though try not to pry too much if she does not want to reveal personal medical information to you. You may find that by discussing her time off, you will establish how she feels about the job... as she sounds unmotivated, perhaps she isn't enjoying the job.

In my view, it is unreasonable to expect your nanny to have higher standards than yourself. Saying that though, some nannies may well have higher standards. It all depends on the person - who you choose to employ.

You are the employer, so if you do not want your sons watching DVD at all during the day, you can say so. However I would try to avoid a blanket ban, instead start more softly by restricting the time period.

I got through today without the children watching any DVD, though they did protest a bit. Instead we all went on starfall.com, and leant about the alphabet, phonics, and the 3 year old learnt how to use the Printer, plus practice mouse skills. Computer Time can be similar to DVD Time in certain ways, but does tend to be more educational, and can involve everyone. Point I am trying to make is that there are alternatives to DVD/TV.

With regard to food, if you expect your nanny to make things from scratch, then during those times the children will not get much attention and thus may be dumped in front of the DVD, to help avoid health and safety issues arising. Some multi-tasking is possible depending on the circumstances, though young children and kitchens do not tend to mix well. However, if you are able to keep an eye on the children, then certainly no reason why your nanny could not make up fresh purees and prepare lunch/tea.

And how many sickies do you think is reasonable?

Is there ever a reasonable number?
BA Cabin crew were about to strike over that sort of issue this week, weren't they?

The key I feel to sickness is to monitor it closely. Do return-to-work interviews following sickness, so that you discuss with your employee regarding their time off. Pay for sickness should be clearly put in the contract, and as the employer you certainly do not have to pay full salary - SSP can kick in quite quickly.

Does your nanny realise who is in charge of the children? Might sound like a silly question but if you are around a lot of the time and sometimes doing things with the children during that time, she may feel that she is supposed to be taking her lead from you and working around whatever you may be doing. I have an after-school nanny 5 days a week but only work 4 so on one afternoon we can both be in the house together. However, I made it clear to nanny and the boys that she is still in charge e.g. if they want TV on early or want an extra snack, she is the person they ask every day and not just when she is there alone, Similarly, if I am taking one or both out on that afternoon, I try to tell her in advance so she can plan a more time-consuming tea for instance.

Re the cooking, laundry etc I am amazed at how little she is doing BUT what kind of job description does she have? Did you specify what you wanted her to do clearly? Sometimes if you don't ask, you don't get!

I've just had another tangential thought. We've had four nannies and all bar one of them have hated sharing the day and the children with me and that one was so angelic I think she would have been gracious about sharing the day with the entire household of Celebrity Big Brother. I don't think this is particularly about me, really; every nanny I've ever spoken to would prefer not to have their boss around. It blurs boundaries and there is a real confusion for nanny, boss and children about who is responsible for what and who is in charge. I wonder if your almost constant presence is demotivating your nanny. If so, it's not your fault or her fault at all, but you may want to think about re-structuring your day or getting a different type of person, perhaps a mother's help or au pair, for whom sharing control would not be such an issue.

I really don't know why you're employing her

excellent post nick.

Issymum I think you are right to some extent, although it's always been clear that I am at home. And I need an English nanny because DS has special needs - language and communication difficulties, and needs a lot of help with his speech. She has the use of my car. Nannynick I don't think winter is difficult at all when it comes to outings - what little boy is not happy jumping in puddles in the park! We had a good start but she just seems to have lost interest. I hate having to pull her up on this, after series of Eastern European au pairs and what have you it's just so nice to have someone intelligent around who can speak English. I really do hope we work this out. But yes the dog will have to go....

Very true about puddles. You should have seen how muddy myself and one of the children (with special needs) I care for got on Sunday. There can be nothing better than getting muddy - but not all parents appreciate it!

I think you need to establish why she has lost interest. Once you know what the issue is, then you can with luck resolve it. Have a good chat with her when she returns to work.

I have two part time jobs at the moment - one for a family where both parents work and one for a SAHM. I know that I don't work to the best of my ability in the second job - I find it very stressful having a parent around all day who doesn't really have anything to do. At least when parents work from home, the children know that mummy is in the office and nanny is in charge, but when mum is just watching TV or popping to the shops, its very confusing for children and consequently their behaviour isn't always brilliant, which makes the nannies job even harder.
I am much more relaxed with the kids when I'm sole charge - if they are happily engrossed in a game I don't feel so guilty about having a cup of tea and a quick flick through the paper, after all most jobs allow workers teabreaks. However when a parent is hovering about in the background, I feel like I'm being watched for want of a better word, that I have to be constantly entertaining.
To be honest, it gets me down and I don't give the job my all. When I finish at 6pm I think thank God thats over for another week, whereas I really enjoy the other job with the working parents and feel like a valued employee providing childcare that is really needed. This job finishes in a few months and I definitely won't take a SAHM job again.
Maybe your nanny feels the same

nannyDB your situation really doesn't apply to us, but it was interesting to hear your input, how sad you feel that way about your other job.

Havn't read the whole thread yet but yes she is having you on;
I think its perfectly reasonable to expect high standards from your nanny, thats what you pay for after all.

I'd certianly pull her up on the household stuff, I always assumed that a nanny whether full or p/t is responsible for the children INCLUDING their clothes and food on the days she has them

We're just starting with a new nanny and here's some of our duties list:

Wash up after breakfast and lunch (includes washing up our cups and plates at breakfast) in return we don't expect her to wash up his tea things at 4pm (she finishes at 4.30/5pm) we do them with our tea things that evening

Clean highchair after each meal

Plan weeks menu for DS meals (with input from me), leave list of shopping needed for menu which I then order from tesco, cook DS meals.

Do Ds laundry, (he has a seperate basket in his room so she doens't have to sort out our clothes too)

Hoover nursery 2x week

Keep toys tidy and clean

Hoover living room if used it instead of playroom during the day

Clean kitchen worktops/cooker as needed after cooking

Re sickness, I had a bad experience with a previuos nanny who was always taking odd days off at short notice. So this time the contract says:
we will pay SSP (which is only £70/week and NOT paid for first 3 days) thats all you HAVE to pay by law.
We will pay the 1st three days as well but reserve the right to ask for a doctors note.
We'll review it after 6 months and providing everyhtin is okay we'll add extra cash in on top of SSP.

I don't get paid if I'm off sick or not working as I'm a supply teacher. So if nanny is ill, i have to pay her, take time off work and lose a days pay myself.

I echo the view that nannies generally can't stand having parents around. our first nanny (who was very kind, experienced and professional) told me outright that things were always much better all round when the parents were not in the house.