Have I been unlucky? Nannies don't stick around.

[CrispyFB]

I went back to work in January after nearly 8 years as a SAHM. My new job is full time (sadly, it's not compatible with part time) and fabulous.

I have four children, 9, 7, 5 and 2 and the youngest is in full time nursery so it's only the older three to care for after school and full time in the holidays.

The 5 year old has ASD/PDA but if he's handled "right" he's actually less hassle than the older two! Unfortunately after school club was too much for him when I first went back because so many of the older children didn't give him the space he needed and one of the teachers didn't always follow the guidelines we had given (according to our reliable oldest) and was ordering him about. As a result he was excluded after a week following a meltdown which is why we've gone down the nanny route.

Our first nanny was the first one I interviewed (although I did interview another who seemed okay) and I just knew she was "the one". She was perfect, too good to be true. The children loved her and she loved them. My son never melted down for her because she treated him as we told her to. Unfortunately after three months she had to move out the area because of her husband's work. We are friends on FB and she regularly posts on my posts about the children saying she misses them.

I hoped we'd find somebody again really fast but it took over a month and although I interviewed lots of nannies, it was awful. The first one seemed keen, a bit critical of her current employer but as soon as I asked for references basically said it wasn't for her. The second one wanted £15/hour in an area that pays £10/£11 at most. The third also seemed keen, said she'd send over her paperwork and then never bothered. Then there was nobody because I'd exhausted all the possibles and no new ones showed up. Finally somebody we know through the school happened to spot my profile on childcare.co.uk and said she was becoming available and got in touch.

She is lovely, the children like her, and she's been working for us three weeks now. Our son has been fine with her too, no meltdowns to report, or at least nothing serious. Today she handed in her notice (one week - we are SCREWED) because her grandfather needs looking after in his home full time and nobody else will do it. I think it's genuine because she hasn't seemed unhappy at all and I am a very easygoing person who gives them a lot of flexibility, and our children are usually very well behaved aside from a bit of normal sibling bickering! Neither nanny has had anything other than praise about them (their teachers say the same - it's not just mummy-goggles - ASD son improved immensely at school too once first nanny took over). And I personally try and be the employer I would want to have. If anything I'm too much of a pushover.

Have we just been really unlucky? Because there is NO WAY I can go through this with a third nanny. My ASD son was already really unsettled at the change of nanny the first time, it's going to be horrendous a second time and if it happens again, well, yeah. I've stated in my job advert VERY clearly that we need somebody long term too.

Going back to work has saved my sanity (I was seeing a doctor for depression and anxiety until I got my career back) but with unreliable childcare like this I don't think I can keep working. It's not fair on my children to keep flipping nannies like this, plus my anxiety means I get so stressed and upset with the interview process as I am so shy.

We've asked agencies in the past but they only seem to cater for full time nannies, and we only need after school plus holidays.

Is it normal for nannies to just not last more than a few months at best? When I take on a job in my career I intend it to be for the foreseeable, at least a few years. Because if so, I am going to have to hand my notice in and my dreams will be shattered. I'm already feeling sick and a wreck over having to do the nanny search yet again, especially as there's such a rush now, but to do this a fourth time this year if the next one falls through - I just can't. That'll be it.

You can only do what you can do, but you will struggle to find someone who can commit long term to after school hours only. That's just the way it is.

Holidays shouldn't really be a problem, because you arrange holiday at a time that is convenient to both of you. Generally, you choose half and they choose half.

A good nanny will make sure you youngest is socialised and will manage 4 after-school with no problem (although if the clubs are a nightmare maybe cut back a bit....pay for the nanny with the savings).

If you offer a full-time job at £10ph, you won't need a nanny who brings their own child. You've had to settle for that because the hours are bad. If the hours and pay are good, you will have your choice of candidates.

wizzywig - three with SEN! That must be so hard. I've seen there's a specialist SN agency but the fees were astronomical!! And in our case at least, our son is fine with somebody with non-SN experience so long as they treat him as we ask. He doesn't need a one to one in school, for example.

The clubs are only two afternoons a week and all in the same place, so it's not too complicated. The older two mostly handle themselves with it all anyway, they just need to be transported! And on one of the days, once they're dropped off, the nanny can leave because I pick them up. They only do 1 or 2 things each and love their clubs!

I really don't want our youngest to give up nursery, she is so settled there and she loves it. Also in a year she'll be starting the school nursery so we won't need a nanny full time at all then. I would hate to take someone on and then have to reduce their hours in a year and have them leave - better to get somebody with the right hours to begin with.

Hopefully offering up to 32 hours a week might stand us a better chance. I know it's not 50 hours a week like a full time position would be, but I'd hope the 13 weeks of holiday being full time would help a bit.

What did the other nannies do during the rest of their time? Sounds like you need to find someone who is similar to them, who only needs to work 15-20 hours per week. Offering more hours may help... I nanny 36 hours per week, but I do that over 3 days, not 5 as it enables me to do other things on the other days of the week.
It will suit someone, the problem is finding them.

Do you live near a university? If so you could advertise at the job shop.

For an example (we also live just outside London), we had little problem attracting a good part-time mainly after school nanny in Central London, but we went through 4 in 9 months when we first moved out. I even went up to £16/hr net to try and attract someone good.

We now have au pairs.

I would think you will always struggle to find a part time nanny who will stay long term. In many cases, people work full time unless they have their own children, in which case they work part- time to fit round them; what you offer doesn't really.

Both of them have young children (which we were happy for them to bring along, and our children loved them and vice-versa!) So it suited them having a job where they could still be around their own child, and not working for too long. I don't know, maybe they're finding it a lot harder than they thought dealing with so many children AND their own very young ones. It's not easy as I know, from having those three and my own toddler!

There's no university near here unfortunately, although there is a local college that offers childcare qualifications I could look into.

Worst case we could offer three full days and try and work something out between ourselves for the other two.. DS might survive one day a week at after school club for instance. After all I agree it's nicer to have longer days and then have whole days free - it might make it more attractive.

Sorry to hear you've had a similar experience Karoleann. Au-pairs are just impossible for us due to space, unfortunately :-(

Lots have looked at my profile today, but no messages. Best case they're considering, or most likely the hours and/or number of children don't suit. Even the ones whose profiles seem to match exactly what I'm asking for!

rollonthesummer - but it did suit the first two nannies because they had young children of their own and we were happy for them to bring them along!

But not long term, maybe. It sounds as if you're attracting people who aren't viewing it as a career choice but as something that's ok to do for a bit.

I don't mind a bit, so long as it's more than three weeks or even three months! A year I wouldn't mind. Just a bit of stability.

I honestly think our first nanny would have loved to have stayed for longer, she really did strike me as committed and she's even been in touch when she saw I was advertising again to express her sympathy. But relocating (and the reasons were sound!) is a hard one to get past!! We basically just need another one like her - she was totally perfect - who doesn't relocate. But I think we just got incredibly lucky with her by the looks of things :-(

It's looking increasingly like I'm going to have to give work an ultimatum of me reducing my hours significantly (which seems unlikely they'd agree to) or me giving up work, probably forever, because nobody is going to take me on for school hours only in the industry I work in. And by the time my two year old can come home safely from school on her own, my skills will be so out of date nobody will want to employ me.

There's another resentful wasted professional mother to add to the pile. I have three daughters, what message is it giving them? Don't breed if you want a career? Fab.

I think one issue may be the contrast in hours in term time and holidays. You may find someone who is happy doing 15/20 hours a week, but to go from that to 50 hours non stop for 6 weeks is quite a big jump.

When did your nannies both leave, was it in the run up to Easter/Summer holidays? That might be a clue. It sounds like a lovely job especially for a NWOC during term time, but too much in the holidays.

One of my good friends is a NWOC and she works about 4 hours a day, and then full time in the holidays. She dreads the holidays and has really struggled with them since having a baby. She has four in total (one is hers). She is staying though because she's been with them since the children were born, and is hoping it will get easier when her child is older (he's a toddler now)

That's a fair point, actually, especially for those with their own children. It may well be a big struggle (and I can't help but wonder if that played a part in our latest one leaving just a week into the holidays).

Perhaps I should update my advert to suggest we're happy with somebody who just wants term time only and then try and find some other solution for the holidays. There's no shortage of local clubs, and DS is actually fine in clubs for up to a week before he starts getting stressed. Perhaps we could get a temporary nanny for the odd week here and there and take our own holidays etc to break up the summer holidays. It's doable I guess!

It's no surprise that my decision to finally do something about going back to work came hot on the heels of the summer holidays last year, ha.

Thanks :-)

Why don't you advertise as term time only, but with the option of additional work in the holidays if they want it? Like you do with the extra hour. That way you don't put off people looking for part time only, but also don't rule out the odd one or two who might want long holiday hours for extra cash.

Just amended the advert to reflect that! :-) Although obviously a lot of people will have seen it in its old form and probably ruled me out and not realised I've changed it.. ah well. I've made it clear in the first sentence though so hopefully they might spot it!

Is it on childcare.co.uk that you're advertising? Because you will get bumped back up to the top after amending it, and chances are nannies won't remember the username and will click again. Also, when you change your specifications, it will email matching nannies to say you've recently updated and will get them to have another look. Don't fret!

Thanks!! Yep, I must have updated it four times in the last two days - heh! You're right about it being bumped, I always get more hits after an update. Hopefully they'll forget or at least look again..

I might see if there are any local nanny FB groups as well as I know some areas have them. Has to be worth a try.

I really hope that you find someone who fits what you're looking for.

It's likely though that something is going to have to give, but it really doesn't need to be your career or mental health!

'....but DD loves nursery', '....but the holidays might be tricky'....'but the kids can't miss/change their afterschool activities'....they're not really things worth sacrificing your mental health over or becoming a resentful wasted professional for.

Your youngest will be ok out of her nursery and your elder two will cope with missing their activities for a couple of terms.

If this job is as important to you as you say, you are mad to be thinking about giving it up.

You have options;
-a full time nanny
-a childminder for all of them
-a childminder for DS and the girls at afterschool club.
-the girls at afterschool club and DS in a nanny-share.

Is it possible for you and/or DH to work condensed hours and do either a four-day week or a nine-day fortnight? Then you can keep one or two days worth of afterschool activities and use a childminder for the rest of the week.

Also, and I mean this in the kindest way, do you think your DD was anxious because you were anxious? It's a good sign that she settled so well/quickly into the nursery, and with a sociable nanny, I'm sure she'd be the same. Most nannies like to be out and meeting others a lot of the time.

I appreciate what you're saying, but the options aren't all valid. For instance we can't afford a full time nanny, it's just not possible even if it weren't for the socialising aspect. And that's if they gave up all their clubs too. Having worked it out properly, it's an extra £450 a month in real terms at £10/hour over what we pay now. No clubs cost that, even for three children.

DS would not do well at a childminder because he needs to be at home after school and just chill. Being in somebody else's house around other children who may not respect his needs and he has no place he can feel "safe" like he does at home - it's not a risk I want to take.

A nanny share might be possible but we're back to the same old issue of finding somebody who is happy to do part time!

My youngest is still anxious, she has always been that way. Very sensitive to attention, and avoids eye contact. I'm fairly sure she has ASD (for this and other reasons) so it's not anything she's learned from me.. inherited, perhaps! I keep my anxiety buried inside anyway - it's not related to the children at all, it's mostly social anxiety.

The only real possibilities if we can't find somebody are to basically give an ultimatum to work over my hours - I reduce them/compress them, or I leave. DH is already out the house 12-13 hours a day as he has a long commute, I don't think he could compress his hours or we'd never see him!

Ok, so full-time nanny is a definite no. Although do factor in that unless you're in central London a newly qualified nanny or NWOC will not expect £10ph. That's the going rate for someone with a bit of experience and no child coming with them. Maybe do the sums on £8ph and see where that gets you.

How thoroughly have you looked into childminders? I appreciate it isn't the ideal of him being in his own home, but there are many wonderful childminders with experience of dealing with children with additional needs. It's not his own home, but at least it is a home....it's miles and miles better than an afterschool club. Could he not come to be relaxed and safe there, if you found someone who understood what he needs and supported him to settle in? Is it really not worth the risk of just making some phone calls and maybe meeting some of the childminders available? Apologies, if you've already done this!

The idea of a nanny share would be to avoid the part time problem! The nanny works full-time, but just not always with your children. From what you've said though, I'm not sure it would work.

If absolutely the only type of childcare you can use is an afterschool nanny, then you may be in a bit of trouble! I really hope it's third time lucky and you find someone who will stick around. Maybe an older lady would be good, someone semi-retired? More of a grandma figure than an experienced nanny, maybe worth advertising more widely.

Suggest look at CMs before ruling them out. You're making assumptions. Our CM was amazing, had a lovely cosy home and was great for my DC with SN.

I don't think it'd be reasonable or professional to "give work an ultimatum". You could make a flexible working request, but need to present this in positive terms and how it'd be OK for the business.

Where is your H in this? He is a parent too! You want/need to continue to work (and when looking at costs of childcare vs salary take into account the longer term - eg likely long term reduced options and much reduced earnings if you take time out - and benefits, pension etc too) so he should support that. Presumably while you have taken the economic hit of parenthood his career has continued FT+ : time for him to step up?

You are always going to have people up and leave if you are only offering PT work, because they are going to see you as a stopgap until they can get something FT (and preferably that pays better).

I agree an older lady might work well for you too as Nuffsaid suggests.

I think nanny sharing might be your best option. From the nanny's pov, s/he would be working full time, spread over two families. Picking up extra work is something many professional nannies want to do, partly because it spreads their risk if they get fired from one family for whatever reason, and partly because they want to earn more. You are lucky in that you are offering regular afternoon hours as far as I can tell, and not hours all over the place. You might dovetail with someone who currently works mornings.

Fwiw, your average nanny isn't going to tell you how difficult your children really are because they fear they would make themselves look incompetent. Children can be fine for a couple of hours but all day every day (as in school hols) they show their true colours.

What was it about the after school clubs that you struggled with?

Keep plugging away though. Don't give up your work. Do it if you love it. Don't fret over giving an example to your children , etc.

Another option could be a mix of care. Sometimes nannies who work 3 or 4 days a week look for extra work, often on a Friday. You cover 2 days already? perhaps your H could leave early one day a week and the DC could do after school care at a club or CM just for a short while.

Thanks for all your replies!

In some ways a childminder could work - it's not been ruled out entirely, it's just I'd worry it would fail like after school club did and then we'd be screwed with no notice again. That was unbelievably stressful. I do know some of the local childminders and they are lovely (and my friend on FB in two cases - yes, I've obviously asked them if they know anyone!) but whether they have spaces is another matter as I have the impression spaces are very hard to come by from other parents. Spaces at after school club for the older two wouldn't be a problem, but they would lose their clubs (both clubs have waiting lists of over a year to get into, not even kidding) and it would end up costing more. It's an absolute last resort option really.

Also, selfishly, I love the fact a nanny does the children's laundry for the same price of a childminder or after school club. It is such a treat for us (DH is very good with housework, it's not all on me) and worth its weight in gold because we then have that time to spend with the children ourselves.

After school club was fine for the older two, but my ASD son found it hard to cope with the noise and chaos after a long day holding himself together at school. This meant he was a lot more susceptible to triggers and it takes a lot less to push him over the edge into meltdown. And from what my reliable oldest told me, at least one of the teachers was being strict with him despite everything we'd said. I did raise it as an issue, but by that point we'd pulled him out. He was a completely different boy for our nanny at home, our first nanny couldn't believe the stories I told her. So you see why I want a nanny really!

I agree a nanny isn't going to tell us everything in case she looks incompetent, but they have told us some stuff. I'd like to hope it was mostly the full story! Although I completely agree children can be so much worse on long school holiday days than they are for a few hours after school each day. I know it very well ;-)

When I said an ultimatum, I did of course mean a carefully worded flexible working request! It may be possible - a friend on another team has successfully negotiated her hours down to fit around her childcare problems. But that's another team, and there's lots of parents on her team. I'm the only woman and the only parent on mine and I don't think anyone really "gets" it and I don't want to be That Mother.

DH has been fab with being able to work from home/come home early to cover various childcare crisis - he is more than doing his part in that regard. But yes, his career went meteoric whilst mine stagnated for the 8 years I took out. He's very aware of this. Part of the reason for me returning to work is so I can have some independence again and a pension payment, as well as for my sanity and sense of self.

Some hopeful news - a nanny I previously had to turn down when we got our current one is still looking and I'm going to have a chat with her today. She's very keen to take DD4 a few days a week which I've agreed to from suggestions here, so if she does seem suitable, I'm hoping that means she'd be more likely to stick around. She has possibly also got a full day position on two days a week, so we'd need to find a solution for those but we probably could. Either way, she's more of a full time nanny, a bit older too, so hopefully a lot more likely to be reliable, right? :-)

Oooh that sounds promising - fingers crossed!