new nanny and quick question re holidays-for contract

[Maisiemouse]

Hi-about to employ my first nanny and am v nervous...my quick question is about holiday. We were planning to give her 4 weeks paid hols which I think we were going to make her take when we take ours...the question tho is what happens if we take more holiday? One of my friends has suggested that she would then need to 'make up' the hours for us-ie extra babysittingbut this seems pretty mean to me. I guess if we were planning on spending a few months away each year but it's more likely to be a couple of weeks over and above the 4 weeks. Does anyone have any advice? I don't want to regret things not put in contract but also want to be fair.

If I take a day off that my nanny is meant to be working I either give her some other tasks to do that day (tidy kid's room, organise toys, landry, etc.) or I give her the day off for free.

I don't think it's fair to forse babysitting in lieu.

However, if she asked for the day off and it was beyond holiday entitlement I might let her have it if a- I could cover the childcare without incurring a cost (i.e. take the day as holiday and look after kids myself) and b- she agreed to it.

BTW, you don't have to give 4 weeks of holiday on top of bank holidays, but most people do.

forse
force

maisie - just a note on your 4 weeks basic: the standard thing (in my experience) is that each side gets to pick 2 of the weeks - so you can make her take 2 when you take yours but the other 2 should be hers to choose. Obviously you don't have to go with this, but you might want to know what her nanny friends are getting!

You taking extra holiday - there shouldn't automatically be a quid pro quo for that - eg if you decide to go away at short notice, the nanny might not be able to arrange anything to do. That shouldn't count as time off to be made up, I think - but as extra (paid) holiday. If you can think up projects, as uwila suggests, so that she comes in to sort out outgrown clothes or fill up the freezer while you're away it might make it feel fairer.

If there's lots of notice, she wants the extra time off, etc. you could ask for some extra babysitting credits - but the one thing I'd really not recommend is doing an hour-for-hour balance sheet, as it can really backfire on the working relationship (eg if, as happens, there are days when you get home 20 mins late - you want both sides to feel they're being treated equally & flexibly).

ok with a nanny it almost always works out that we get 4 weeks holiday (+ bank hols) per year... in our contract

the nanny chooses 2 weeks, employer 2 weeks. If you give your nanny more holiday then that its up to you but should not expect the nanny to make up the hours because you have decided you dont weant her, as she is avaliable to work.

Myself and all my nanny friedns get in our contract 2 weeks our choice 2 weeks theirs... however our bosses all get at least 6 weeks holiday so the reality is that we get 6 weeks off... we choose about 2 weeks (most of our bosses are felxible enough to let us choose a day or too extra here or there as well ) and they choose about 4 weeks.

My old job i ended up having 8 weeks off in the year. I was NOT expected to make any of it up, and nor would i have.

also unless i get 4 weeks notice my days off (holiday days) dont even count

My nannies' contracts have always said 4 weeks, they choose 2 and we choose 2 weeks

Then I have time in reserve in case nanny is sick and I need to take a day's holiday to look after my own children. And if she's not sick, it means we have spare holiday and she gets bonus days off, which always go down well. Have tried projects once or twice but wasn't very good at thinking them up.

Being a good employer involves some give and take and I have always found "extra" days off to be an easy "give" on my part. She might be a bit more tolerant if you are 5 minutes late home sometimes, or if she has to buy milk because you keep forgetting - I think this second one is my worst sin but I expect my nanny would have her own views!

thankyou!!!since you all seem much more experienced than me, my other q is should I pay by the week or monthly? She will be doing 3 fixed days each week and I'm sure she would rather be paid by the week but I have the feeling that it might be easier to do just one payslip each month..any thoughts?

You can do a monthly payslip even if paying weekly - we did that (our weekly standing order, payslip sent out monthly by Nannytax). So you might want to let her choose how she wants to be paid? - as it's just as easy for you either way.

I would do monthly. Are you going to do it yourself or contract someone like nannypaye.co.uk. I think they can do either, but it might be slightly more expensive for weekly.

A contract with a nanny is typically one where you state a Annual Salary and expected working hours per week. Therefore, regarding holidays, if you take off more than the 4 weeks, either the nanny works (doing something for you) or has the day off with pay. Rules regarding bank holidays may change in the future, so keep an eye on that if you decide that you do want your nanny to work bank holidays.

Also as it is an annual salary, it is easier to pay Monthly, just like it any other job (ok, so some jobs pay weekly, but not many). Try to match the pay date with your own, so that your pay has gone though to your bank account before you pay the nanny - can be a tricky one.

If you use Childcare Vouchers, the voucher redemption company may well prefer monthly payment as well. Plus, you only have to do the payroll run once a month... not every week.

I get 4 weeks holiday and have never been able to choose and tbh it's never bothered me that much and bank holidays. I get paid weekly from nannypaye but it would be fine to be paid monthly. Do whats best for you.

OK, on the subject of holidays. I am about to start a new nanny 2 days a week 6 hours a day. The other three days she works 10 hours for another family.
She will have 4 weeks holiday in her contract, 2 weeks her choice 2 weeks ours. PLus she will also have the week between Christmas and New Year off paid. We take about 6 weeks total and if she takes her two weeks in term time she will end up with at least 4 weeks extra paid holiday in school holidays.
My qusetion is about bank holidays. We will never need her to work bank holidays - do you think it would be fair to state they were unpaid? My worry is that if one of her work days is a monday we will be paying a rather excessive amount of holiday!

Since this is effectively a nanny share, are you coordinating the hols with the other family so that she get's whole weeks of hols? Rather than you two days off from you and three days off from the other family in a different week?

I think I'd get togeth with all parties involved and define the four weeks of holiday at the start of the contract.

Yes, I might say the bank hols are unpaid, but I'm sure other will be on here to tell you I'm a mean old bat.

Awwww... thanks Jura. And just when I complemeted your wise words on the other nanny thread.

Maisiemouse - I would say that as you are the employer it's up to you if you want to pay monthly or weekly. Bink has a good point about paying weekly but using a monthly payslip system, though that may confuse the nanny over exactly what she's earning. Oh, and put gross on the contract, not net, and work from there. Re: holiday - she may not take a two week break, but prefer to take long weekends or two one week breaks. Specify x days in the contract.

Elliot - usually nannies get paid bank holidays - do you? If you don't, you may just have to bite the bullet, I'm afraid. And yes, you do need to define how to work out the hols before the nanny starts.

Regarding my holidays - from a quick chat with the other mother, I don't think our holidays are going to co-ordinate very well - I am confined to school holidays, but can take all my holidays then if I want, while she is not (and even when she is, will have a limit to how much she can take in school hols). Obviously the 2 weeks chosen by the nanny would be the same. My problem with paying bank holidays is 1) I don't think it is very fair wrt the other family if I happen to employ her on a monday (but only employ her for a quarter of her total hours) and always have to foot the bill for the bank holiday and 2) since she will be getting so much more paid holiday then usual from me, surely its fair enough not to have paid bank holidays? On top of what will effectively be 9 weeks paid holiday? That's certainly more than I get!

Actually my preferred solution would be not to employ her on a monday but it depends on when the other mother fixes her days of work (out of both our control!)

I agree elliot, if you employ her 2 days of the week and the other family 3 days of the week, surely you should be covering 2/5 of the total holiday and bank holiday pay.

Its not even 2/5 uwila, its 12 hours vs 31.

Agree with Uwila about the hols.

Personally, I wouldn't have taken a job with unpaid bank holidays, no matter how much extra holiday I had, especially in a share.

Sorry. You may find a nanny who's happy to earn a little less in exchange for more holiday.

Elliot, and I bet the other mum has thought about bank holidays when she organised her work week. And is therfore avoiding employing nanny on monday.

And what about the personal tax allowance? Who gets that?

No, its not up to her what days she does. Its not finalised yet though. She is already employing this nanny. i don't think I have much option but to match her (gross) hourly rate of pay - she will probably keep the tax allowance but that won't affect how much I pay so long as we are paying the same gross rate.
But if it does turn out to be mondays we will have to discuss it between us. hmmm, this is turning out to be quite expensive considering all I REALLY need is 6 hours a week in the term time and a day or two a week in the holidays....

thanks so much everyone-have been writing up a contract and am going to do as suggested-4 weeks hols(2 hers and 2 ours) and probably pay her weekly but do monthly payslips.
am thinking I will do the payments/payslips and tax myself via hmrc as they seem really helpful (sounds a bit of a con to pay 250 to a company to sort it out) or am I being naive?!
also someone suggested stating the pay in gross terms in the contract..is it not better to do it net? or is it because of taxes (and if rates change then I'm the one who pays the difference)
sorry-I feel as though I get one q answered and have 2 more!