Advice needed by nanny

[LisaCollison93]

Hi there, I posted this on net mums but didn't get much feedback, just wanted to see if anyone had advice or has ever been in the same position before! It's pretty long so I do apologise... so here goes... I'm self employed nanny for two families, I work mon-wed for one and thurs-fri for the other. I absolutely love both my jobs and would never dream of leaving but my mon-wed family constantly mess me around regarding keeping me on or not. I get on very well with the mum and I see her more like a friend than anything so I feel like I can ask her anything. Basically she's just got a new job and she hates it so she's looking for a new job which is full time and she's mentioned how families who work full time don't get as much help with costs of child care (I'm OFSTED reg) so she's not sure whether she wants to keep me on or not if she takes the new job and that's the case. I absolutely understand she has to do what's best for her and her family like anyone would but this is the second time it's happened. about 2 months ago she wasn't sure she wanted to keep me on because she thought putting the boys in a nursery would be cheaper, it was only a few days later when she added all the costs up did she realise that it made no difference with money costs so kept me on. I've just asked her today what her intentions are re my employment and she basically just said she'd let me know once she finds out... also we have a contract which was signed stating she'd give me a weeks notice if she was to let me go (I get paid weekly) but I don't think she would. Last time it looked as if she was just going to get rid of me straight away. If she does decide to let me go, I wouldn't be totally screwed because I have my second family but it's only two half days so I would be quite skint. Like I said we have a great relationship and I honestly feel as if I've bent over backwards for this family but it just feels as if she'll dump me whenever she feels like it, my family and friends have all told me to look for another job with a family who can commit but I'm honestly so happy with this family and I don't want to leave unless I really really have to. I was thinking of a nanny share with both families (to save her money, wouldn't really benefit me at all) but it would be 5 children ranging from 8 months to 6 years so it would def be a bit too much for me. I have asked her in the past to give me a straight answer regarding my employment but she always avoids the answer etc. I just don't know what to do anymore :( I don't even have loads of jobs to choose from as theirs not that many in my area. I'm just Feeling so down, just don't need all this especially with Christmas only 2 months away! if you've got this far, you deserve a medal lol thanks! X

Start looking for another part time job.
She is being very unfair and creating a lot of stress for you.

Could you register with an agency so that if he does give you notice you can get temporary work while looking for another permanent job?

Start looking for a job

Hi, I live in north wales and I don't think there are any agency's in my area, I go on child care.co.uk and ukcare.com everyday but no luck. I don't nannying is very common here. Plus I don't drive so makes it harder. x

There are not a lot of nannies in North Wales. NannyPaye recently published a map showing where nannies are located and North and Mid Wales were areas where there were not a lot. So I can see that finding work could be tricky.

I'm self employed nanny for two families, I work mon-wed for one and thurs-fri for the other.

So that does not really fit with self employment, it is more like two jobs. You are missing out on employment rights by doing it through your own business and are running the risk that your clients just stop using you at any time.

I get on very well with the mum and I see her more like a friend

You are clouding the relationship, she is first and foremost a client of your business. If she is not sticking with the terms of your agreement then you need to consider if they are a client worth keeping.

she's looking for a new job which is full time

Yet you work 3 days for her, so what would she do for the other days? She may decide to get childcare for all 5 days.

I'm OFSTED reg

Ofsted do not register providers in Wales. So if you are Ofsted registered then she can not get help via that method. They could do through Childcare Vouchers if you registered with CSSIW.

about 2 months ago she wasn't sure she wanted to keep me on because she thought putting the boys in a nursery would be cheaper

Perhaps very tight on money and so aiming for the lowest cost care. I would have thought that nursery for 2 children would be a little cheaper than a nanny.

asked her today what her intentions are re my employment and she basically just said she'd let me know once she finds out... also we have a contract which was signed stating she'd give me a weeks notice if she was to let me go.

Yet you are self employed, so there is no contract of employment. Perhaps you mean Terms of Business. If she was to not stick to your business terms you could pursue her via small claims court but there would be costs involved so it may not be worth while.

You are able to look for more clients, or paid employment whenever you like, so no harm in looking for work, be that childcare or other.

it just feels as if she'll dump me whenever she feels like it.

Which is what your agreement allows - you have a 1 week notice period on your agreement. If you were an employee, then you may have a longer period such as a month. It still is not a lot but many jobs are not very secure, they can come to an end fairly quickly.

I was thinking of a nanny share with both families

No, don't do that as that would be employment and it will cost both families more as they will have to do payroll and pay employers NI which they currently are not doing. They should be doing that now but you claiming you are self employed is letting them get away with not doing that at present.

I have asked her in the past to give me a straight answer regarding my
employment but she always avoids the answer etc.

She does not have to do so given your agreement.

There is really nothing you can do except keep looking for work. I would look for paid employment, not new clients for your business, so you get a little more security. Finding work though can be hard in many areas.

Hi Nick, thanks for your reply it's been really helpful. Not sure what you mean by the OFSTED though as I've this mum has been claiming tax credits for a year through my registration and prior to that the family I worked for before claimed tax credits as well. I'm OFSTED registered with CSSIW and I get paid through my bank account every week. X

Looking long term, could you learn to drive and then look for work in Liverpool, Manchester areas? If you want to work as a nanny then you need to be in an area where there is demand for nannies.

If I had not been OFSTED registered these families would of not taken me on in the place as just couldn't afford it, the mum seems to think that if she takes on a full time job she gets less help via tax credits etc? and I guess regarding the 5 days she would just put them in a nursery? but I know her new job would be until 6 every night and the after school club closes at 6 so not sure what she would do! X

Yes I really do need to learn to drive, and I actually live right next door to a driving instructor with very good reviews! I've been putting it off due to nerves and being scared but if it means I have more chance of getting a job I will have to do it! X

You mean you are on the Childcare Approval Scheme run by CSSIW, which is similar to the scheme in England run by Ofsted. I think you have just confused who you are registered with. Each country has a different childcare regulator who runs a voluntary registration scheme for nannies (or for nanny agencies in the case of Scotland).

It is good that you are registered, as that means parents can use things like Childcare Vouchers if their work provides those.

Tax Credits is complicated, the more someone works then the less help they will get towards costs as they will be earning more. Tax Credits are being cut quite a bit soon, so that may affect things.

ohh sorry I'm still getting a hang of everything, find it all really confusing sorry! I thought you meant I couldn't be paid cash but I was confused as I'd been paid for nearly two years through my bank account lol!! My mistake, ahh I see I don't think I would like to be paid by vouchers though anyway as I have seen a lot of threads about how it's a pain to paid that way! X

I think I need to sit her down on Monday and just basically ask for a chat, I know she can't give me a definite answer because she doesn't know what's going on herself so I don't expect but maybe if I can get an idea into what she's thinking of doing it may help! I might just have to say I'll have to look for another job if she can't do that as I'm not prepared to just sit around and wait until she decides what to do X

Hi you know by the sound of it you should not be treating this as self employed - if you work regular hours for these two families they should be treating you as an employee and paying tax and national insurance. If HMRC were to look into it you would be in trouble and so would the families. Sounds like they want to avoid the paperwork and the tax.

Are you filling in a tax return each year and have you registered with HMRC as self employed? HMRC usually say that almost all nanny jobs are not self employed unless you are a temporary nanny doing a few hours here and there for different people. It all sounds horribly messy and you are probably missing out on your employment rights such as sick pay and holiday pay. And if you don't pay any national insurance you will not get a pension when you retire though I know that is many years away.

I know it is hard to find other work but honestly you would be better to find something else and do it properly by being an employee.

Hi, thanks for the message. Both families couldn't afford to employ as the first one (one my thread is about) is a single mum and the other just said they couldn't afford to. I am self employed with HMRC and fill in tax return forms every year. I also have an accountant. X

i am doing the self employment and everything by the books but I agree employment does sound better X

Vouchers can be a pain but mainly due to the time they take to be processed. In my view Tax Credits are worse as they can be cut and stopped. Lots of threads on here and other places about tax credits.
As a nanny I get part paid via vouchers and they tend to come through around the 5th of the following month, not at the end of the month like salary. You get used to it after a while.

Good luck with driving lessons. Even doing one a week would help you become confident in driving and once you have passed your test you can then travel further for work and apply for jobs where the need a nanny who drives. You could consider a live-in job somewhere perhaps, or do you really want to stay in Wales? If so then consider if there is enough demand for nannies in your area, or if working in some other type of childcare such as pre-school/nursery would give you a more stable income.

Employees get paid holiday, right to notice, redundancy pay (if the job ends and they have been there 2 years or more), maternity/paternity pay, sick pay, and don't have the hassle of doing a tax return (though many nannies are employed in their main work and self employed for ad hoc babysitting).

You though do get the advantage with self employment that you call the shots, decide how much you are paid, decide when you work, decide to stop working whenever you like.

It sounds to me as though you want more job security, so to get that you need to look for other work, which perhaps pays more and gives you employee benefits. That may not be your ideal job but it may be something you can do for a while which earns you enough to pay for driving lessons and relocate to another part of the UK where nannies are more in demand.

Hi Nick, all your suggestions are really great and I I appreciate you taking the time to reply to me.
Unfortunately live in wouldn't be possible as I have a child myself (luckily don't have to worry about child care though as my grandmother helps a LOT) so moving away just wouldn't be possible because of my daughter. Both my mum and grandma have offered to pay for my driving lessons to start with. the driving instructor next door to me does a Christmas deal - 5 lessons for 90 quid and my family offered to pay it for me as my Christmas present, plus they really want me to learn because they know how hard it is to get a nanny job around here. I'd be crazy to turn that down right?! I'm just such a nervous person!! I would be more than happy to work outside of north wales as long as it was live out. I'm not really helping myself am I. I really need to be brave and book some lessons lol! X

If you have a child yourself, would being a childminder yourself be an idea? It could be easier to find work, and you could spend more time with your dd.

For future, how could I write my policies in a contract then? as we have one but there pretty basic. I also feel that because there isn't as many jobs around here when I get one I don't want to put them off by saying (you need to employ etc). I also feel most the time the mum is just calling the shots telling me to do this extra day etc not actually asking even though she knows I'm self employed. How would I go about writing it in a contract in the future? basically like how child minders do so people know their in charge so to speak. X

Terms of Business may be quite a simplistic document.

The issue you seem to have is that the parents seem to want you to be their employee but not want to do the paperwork and pay the taxes that involves.

Even if you were an employee, you could not be Told to do an extra day, you can be asked. You just need to be firm and go through your terms of business with them, highlighting that extra days/time is not possible without advance agreement. You are not at their beck and call, you provide them with a service which is agreed in advance.

As others have said I don't think you should be se in these jobs - they are regular perm jobs with set days and hours

That's employment

If you are se then why didn't you give her your terms and conditions via a contract?

You need to look out for no 1 - yes not driving doesn't help - so try and pass and then look for a new family who will employ you

Hi Due to receive contract from new eploiyer this eve via email. Wondering if I should expect there to be a clause about a pay review set in place i.e annually? Not really sure but hate talking money and was wondering what the usual situation was? thanks in advance

Hi Due to receive contract from new eploiyer this eve via email. Wondering if I should expect there to be a clause about a pay review set in place i.e annually? Not really sure but hate talking money and was wondering what the usual situation was? thanks in advance