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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Childminder holidays

17 replies

CMhelp15 · 21/09/2015 14:35

Hi my DDs CM has issued all parents with a new contract stating she will now be charging for all of her four weeks holidays (at least 2 weeks of which are during the six weeks holidays).

At the moment she provides us with 30 days notice of any holidays.
I often find it very difficult to arrange to have the get the same time off eork myself with 30 days notice particularly the 2 weeks off in summer as at my work we have to request our summer leave in January.

This often results in me having to find and pay for alternative childcare during the CMs holidays.

I am happy to still pay whilst she is on holiday as she really is a brilliant CM and my DD is very settled with her, but would it be reasonable to ask for more notice of her holidays if we are now going to be paying for them.
I really couldn't afford to pay for the CMs holidays and for alternative childcare so I'm not really sure how to go forward if she doesn't agree but I just wanted to ask for advice on whether it would be a reasonable request or not.

Thank you

OP posts:
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DonkeyOaty · 21/09/2015 14:38

Ask for all hol dates for next year by the end of Oct. Not unreasonable to be able to plan well ahead. Maybe ask for a contract review?

CMhelp15 · 21/09/2015 14:47

Thank you

She texted saying she was issuing new contracts with no mention of the holidays and then handed out the new contracts to us at the door and asked for us to sign and return them.
I had a proper read through once I bought it home and was a bit shocked she hadn't mentioned it but as I say she is s fab CM.

I've asked before about more notice for holidays but she wouldn't budge but I think I'll have to try and be more assertive because I'll really struggle if she doesn't agree.

OP posts:
longdiling · 21/09/2015 14:58

Hm. 30 days notice is a lot and pretty standard. I give 4 weeks notice and nobody has ever complained. 2 weeks notice was always standard in the office jobs I've done in the past so 4 weeks felt very generous. Maybe you could ask for as much notice as possible for the summer hols if she always books them at the same time? Explain your position with work.

CMhelp15 · 21/09/2015 15:12

I can normally get away with booking holidays with a 1-2 weeks notice at work, it's just the summer and Christmas leave we have to request early and it seems to be the same with the other parents too but it's very helpful to hear other views , thank you Smile

OP posts:
starlight2007 · 21/09/2015 15:23

I am a c minder.

My contract does state I need to give 30 days notice. however my parents are informed well in advance with the exception of events I can only give notice once I have the dates for example school plays.

I also don't charge for my holidays. As such she is self employed so can set whatever terms she likes but equally you don't need to accept them.

Karoleann · 22/09/2015 10:04

I think its damn cheeky...I know I've said this before, but self employed people should not have holiday pay, its an employee benefit.

One of the reasons it never worked out when I tried a childminder, was the lack of notice for holidays. My work required at least 2 months notice of holiday dates and the childminder would only give 1 month.

Since you're happy with her though, just let her know that you're okay with the new arrangement as long as the contractual terms are changed so that she needs to give more notice for holidays.

She can't just change the contract unilaterally, so she would need to give notice if you're not happy with the new arrangement.

HSMMaCM · 22/09/2015 15:47

It's a shame she got you to sign the contract on the doorstep, before you'd read it. I do know one CM who charges for her holidays, but she lets all parents know the whole year's holiday dates at the beginning of the year.

You could give notice, as the contract has changed and no longer suits you and state the notice period as the reason. You do run the risk that she's in demand and will accept your notice and simply take on someone new though.

If you weren't happy with paying, or with anything else, I would be saying give notice, but it sounds like you would like to try and reach a compromise with your CM, which is great.

CMhelp15 · 22/09/2015 16:05

Thank you

I haven't signed the contract yet (although she asked me to sign it without reading it!)
Yesterday I asked if we could have a chat about it, she asked if I'd signed it and I said I hadn't as I needed to discuss it with her. She said she was too busy so I said I'd wait until later in the week and have a chat with her, it was all very awkward.
I really really don't want to give notice but I've got a feeling she's not going to budge on the holiday notice as it's difficult enough just getting the 30 days.

I'd feel terrible if I had to move DD to another CM or nursery as she's so settled there ( she's 3 in January and has been with CM since 7 months) but there is just no way I can afford to pay twice if she won't give more notice.

The CM is also the only CM who does drop offs/pick ups and after school care for the school/nursery that DD will hopefully be attending from Sept 16 and we'd already agreed that DD would continue with the CM when she starts school. I just feel like I'm in an impossible situation.

OP posts:
softhedgehog · 22/09/2015 16:41

Ah. so there's no competition and she's taking advantage of that. Makes it harder for you. Are her hourly rates competitive - all CMs will still need to pay their mortgage etc whilst on holiday so most will factor in cover for holiday in their hourly rate. If her rate is lower it may work out the same over the year.

HSMMaCM · 22/09/2015 16:55

She's not necessarily taking advantage of the lack of competition, she might just have decided it was time for a review. She might have been weighing up the alternatives of (1) higher hourly rate with unpaid holidays, or (2) same hourly rate with paid holidays. If the contract had a raised hourly rate, but holiday arrangements were still the same, would you sign it? If the answer is 'yes', then it might be sensible, just to put some money aside each month to pay for holiday cover. If your holidays can be taken at the same time, then you have a little extra savings pot and if not, then you have money to pay for alternative care.

Hissy · 22/09/2015 17:01

Her "too busy" line yesterday would have me firing her there and then.

She thinks she is being clever, slaps a new contract on you and expects you to sign it no questions. she knows she's being unfair and is hoping you are too chicken to challenge her.

If I were you I'd get straight on to finding new childcare. you have plenty of time until your dd starts school, and when she does, insist on term time childcare only as you'll be able to find far cheaper child care via holiday activities. Either that or get an au pair, or a nanny share with another school mum. In the mean time, tell CM that you won't be signing the contract as you can't work with her terms. Put HER on the back foot

This cm is holding you to ransom, don't let her.

Hissy · 22/09/2015 17:04

Oh and your dd is 3, she won't remember a thing of any of this. My son has no recollection of anything until he was well over 4. Not living abroad, not travelling, not visiting world heritage sites, nothing... Don't allow yourself to be railroaded out of a sense of any continuation of childcare for your dd. It really won't make any difference.

HSMMaCM · 22/09/2015 17:14

I agree it would be fine to move CM if you could make that work for you. If the one you have is a real Mary Poppins and exactly what you want, then it's up to you. Don't just move as a knee jerk reaction to something that she has handled badly though.

jannier · 23/09/2015 14:44

I would work out the annual cost of childcare and how that compares to other childcare charges. if despite the holiday charge it is similar to others who don't charge then accept your paying and put the money aside.
She may well have been busy I don't understand why the other post would suggest this is a lie contracts cant be discussed in working hours through privacy so an appointment out of hours would be normal. If your happy to pay the fee and it is the notice state that the notice is your only issue and that the minimum you need for summer and Christmas explaining the issues at work.

Hissy while someone may not remember in years to come it is well researched that children with stable childcare in the early years are more resilient and happier than those who experience too many changes particularly within a short time you cant equate the stability with remembering holidays and such like. You have to have certain levels of education and development to remember a world heritage site but you always remember the feelings of love and security or fear and uncertainty.

Hissy · 23/09/2015 20:50

The child has had stable child care, but it will be changing. Life does change, it's important that it does. The little girl will be fine. She will not remember a thing.

The stable childcare is her family. We need to have the confidence to commit to this, so we can make the choices necessary for our children.

My son remembers absolutely nothing of his day to day living abroad, he can't remember even his own room, or some of the toys he had there. He doesn't remember traveling on planes, or seeing skyscrapers or helicopters even tho at the time he was fascinated by them. He knows he's been to the pyramids, as he had photos, but he can't remember anything about any of it.

I believe that Having a child who can manage change and adapt knowing that his/her parent loves them is what is desirable here.

Some childminders have a nerve. Some are more reasonable and recognise the value of a positive relationship with the person who is paying the invoices.

The woman refusing to discuss what is a major change to a parent of a child of 3yo is what is most telling here.

A cm has to make the time to hand over, update the parent on the young child's day, not just a tarrah and a cheery wave. She must have known that there was a possibility that parents would want to discuss the changes, ask questions and raise queries.

I'd give the woman one more chance to explain things, but that would be it.

I've just removed my son (9yo) from a cm who uses emotional blackmail to keep her clients despite offering very little in the way of a positive environment, refusing to provide a stimulating and productive setting as she had done previously. In short the children are ignored and bored.

In the end I had to take advantage of her completely mismanaging a situation AND shouting at me and I ended the arrangement.

It's very easy for a cm to provide an adequate environment for a baby. As our children grow, we need to make sure the cm arrangement has developed too.

CMhelp15 · 13/10/2015 13:08

Thank you all for your great advice.

Apologies for the delay in updating but I've been unwell and haven't been back on for a while.

After reading all of your posts, I had a really good think. The CM really is fantastic and my DD is so happy with her.
I think that if the CM would have communicated with us properly beforehand or said she was going to increase her hourly rate than (even though I would still have struggled financially) I would definitely have paid the extra and would have found a way to make it work.

As much as I'm still a bit irritated about how it was delivered, I think that I really am lucky to have found a CM who is so passionate about her job.
If I'm honest, I think we'll always struggle slightly with the communication on contract/fees but I think that's probably because she has become very friendly with all of the mindee's parents and so she feels uncomfortable and awkward discussing these things, even though the we'd all very much prefer to openly discuss/negotiatiate the contracts.
Unfortunately, it seems she finds it easier to just issue new terms without negotiations.

Anyway, I tried (and failed) to arrange a meeting with her to discuss it but I didn't give up.

Whilst picking my DD up, I told her on the doorstep that I couldn't sign the new contract. I explained that I would struggle to find the extra £70 a month to cover the holidays but that I was willing to do so as I'm extremely happy with her caring for my daughter. I explained that as i'd have to find the extra money each month, I really couldn't afford to then pay again for alternative childcare during those holidays so I would need to be given more notice of the dates.

My employers have actually just changed the policy for summer leave and are now asking for 12 months notice, but, in trying to be as reasonable as possible, I asked to be given notice at the beginning of the year of her main holidays.

After a lot of very awkward 'umming and ahhing' she agreed with my logic and said she would discuss this with her husband and get back to me.
This was last Friday so I'm going to ask her about it again this Friday.

I'm hopeful she'll agree to the advanced notice and I was quite clear that it really was the only way I could make it work with the new contract.

I'll update when I've spoken to her on Friday.

Thanks again for all of your really helpful advice.

OP posts:
jannier · 17/10/2015 21:07

hope it went well

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