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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Variation for new business?

15 replies

ThePrisoner · 15/11/2006 23:06

Has anyone ever heard of Ofsted granting a variation to have four children under 5 years Ofsted which is not new business?

I know a parent (friend of a friend) who is desperately trying to find a minder to have a baby and a schoolchild, and cannot find anyone who is able to do the school run (except me!!) - except that I don't have a space for another under 5.

The mum definitely wants to keep the children together.

I am going to ring Ofsted tomorrow just to sound them out, but I just wondered if anyone else has ever tried this?

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nannynick · 15/11/2006 23:58

Not sure I understand what you are meaning by "not new business".

While there is a continuity of care issue, if you are not already caring for the older child, then I doubt Ofsted would grant a variation for 4 under 5's to cover the younger sibling. Of course though it's worth asking, especially if one of the children you already care for will soon be out of your under 5's ratio, thus the variation only needs to be for a limited time, such as 3 months.

See Childminding Guidance September 2004 for two examples of situations in which Ofsted MAY do a variation for more than 3 under 5's.

Original poster

ThePrisoner · 16/11/2006 00:14

Oops, sorry, it's late and I should have said that it is new business (although it is a friend of a friend). She has worked her way through the entire list of minders, including newly-registered ones who are more likely to have the spaces, but with no joy.

I know all about variations, as I have had a couple already to mind four under 5s (continuity of care).

This is totally new business, but the mum has been unable to find anyone who can accommodate both her children, and she definitely does not want to split them up. I would be able to do the school run for the older child (which is the main problem for any other minders to accommodate) but haven't got the vacancy for the younger child.

I just wondered what Ofsted's recommendation would be for this family, because she is supposed to be returning to work soon!!

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franyfroo · 16/11/2006 09:04

Just say that it is an existing customer and she want you to have sibling. Otherwise they will say you need an assistant. and thats more hassle than its worth. You need to write to them telling them what you want to do and how you would cope, ie. have big enough car, high chairs, etc etc. good luck

franyfroo · 16/11/2006 09:04

Original poster

ThePrisoner · 16/11/2006 19:30

I've been given variations before which haven't been a problem ("proper" continuity of care). I already have my dh and dds registered as assistants, mostly for emergencies and in school holidays (now university holidays!!) I don't want to lie about it because I am bound to get found out!

I rang Ofsted this morning and spoke to Someone Important. She told me that getting a variation for new business was unlikely, but to put my request in writing and it would be considered. When I said that the mum would be happy to explain her dilemma, I was told that they "don't talk to parents".

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Original poster

ThePrisoner · 29/11/2006 22:40

OK then - believe it or not - Ofsted have granted me a variation to have a 4th child, even though it is for new business (which I made very clear in my letter). I am completely and utterly gobsmacked.

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Original poster

ThePrisoner · 30/11/2006 21:35

I want someone to be impressed!!!

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mogs0 · 30/11/2006 23:12

I am impressed!!

I'm also impressed that it has all been sorted in such a short time!!

I need to apply for a variation as my 4yr son started school in September and I have been asked to have another child during school hours.

alison222 · 01/12/2006 18:36

I am very impressed.

So on the subject of continuity of care has anyone been granted a variation for more than 6 children (including their own)?

I child I mind has just had twin siblings. I only have him one day a week while she is on maternity leave and as she is still not exactly sure what she is doing , i filled the places at the time. A second child is just about to leave as mum is going to be on maternity leave so I will have 1 space, but not 2. What are the chances do you think? I can't apply for it as nothing is definate yet.

Original poster

ThePrisoner · 01/12/2006 18:36

Thankyou for being impressed - although I still don't understand their reasoning.

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alison222 · 01/12/2006 18:42

Ofsted are a law unto themselves. I asked for a temporary variation for 2 under 1's a year ago and was given a permanent one.

Original poster

ThePrisoner · 01/12/2006 19:04

An Ofsted inspector told me that you can ask for a permanent variation to have two under 1s at any time - you just need to do the usual letter, showing previous experience, that you have all necessary equipment and enough toys/space/activities etc. and can cope perfectly well. Most minders I know locally seem too nervous to put anything in writing to do an "open" request.

I know we are told that variations are possible for continuity of care (such as taking on a new baby sibling), although I know minders who have been refused.

I was 100% sure that my variation request this time would be refused as it was for new business, but told the parent I would ask anyway. A friend told me that they think that Ofsted must have mellowed for Christmas.

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nannynick · 02/12/2006 10:34

I am very very impressed... they must have mellowed out during this Xmas period!

Did they tell you why they were approving your request? Were there any clauses added, such as it being only for a named child, only for a specific period of time, etc. Always interesting to see if we can work out the way they think!

alison - can't imagine they will permit care of more than 6 children, if it's just you without an assistant or co-minder. From looking through tribunal cases, it looks as if they will never agree to more than 6 under 8's per minder. Mind you, given Prisoner's recent news, always worth asking - you may get lucky!

Original poster

ThePrisoner · 02/12/2006 14:54

No, they didn't tell me why they approved my request - and I'm not going to ask in case they realise just how mellow they've been!

Yes, it is for specifically-named children - my three existing ones and the new baby. It is for a specific amount of time - until one of them leaves or turns 5 (and the oldest one is only two!!)

I still can't get my head around it. My organisation skills are going to have to vastly improve (breakfast before any children arrive and lunch ready-prepared and in the fridge!)

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alison222 · 04/12/2006 18:27

Nanny nick - I wuld be doubtful about them agreeing to more than 6 children too. The oldest one will be 7 by then though, so perhaps there may be a bit of leeway. I hwill have to wait a bit nearer to the time and see exactly what the mum is wanting to do. The thing is they are all teachers parents and so the timetables for the part-timers change every year and we have to try and slot it all in.

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