Nanny discussion

[HRHQueenMe]

Honest question. I really dont get the obsession with nannies. Every time looking after young children is mentioned all of mumsnet scream "you must have a nanny!!!" Au pairs are slated as reckless exploites teenagers and if you cannot afford a £15 an hour nanny you should not work.
What qualifications do a nanny have to warrant this? A 2 day first aid course. A CRB check. Sometimes a registration with Ofsted. No checks or paperwork.
I am genuinly interessted as to why this is regarded as such a coveted role?
Why is it over and over recommended that a baby can only be cared for by a nanny when anyone can become a nanny in a few easy steps.
I honestly am interessted and not critisising anyones opinion. Grateful to hear others opinions!

I've been on mumsnet for 7 years now and have only seen a nanny suggested where for some reason e.g. shift work or a long commute which makes other options impossible so I don't think there is an obsession at all.

We have a nanny. She costs £8.50 an hour which is the regional average. We have 3 children. a childminder is £4 per hour per child. My nanny has more qualifications than my ex childminder.
My nanny cares for the children in our own home so after school the bigger ones can flop of they are tired rather than being on the go in a busy environment. She is more flexible around our working patterns than other forms of childcare. She will care for children when poorly (within reason) where a nursery would not.
Yes, anyone can be a nanny. You don't need anything at all. But anyone can be a childminder too with a few basic certificates. There is no "best" childcare, each family visits, interviews and selects what works best for their family and their budget. I've used nursery, childminder and nanny, in fact at the moment i have a combination of all 3!. Only not used am aupair add i have no spare room. Each provided different things.

Nannies come on different scales. Your mentioning glorified babysitters.

All the nannies I know have various qualifications. Most a degree, speak several languages, Montessori training, trained in education. Beyond that most have additional training in food, maternity specialised, postnatal depression. They are experienced in travelling with children and occupying in unknown places, and have 10/15/20/25 years experience of looking after children in various environments

There has been several threads lately, mostly au pair related where several posters were adamant nannys are the only option for young children. I just dont get why a well qualified au pair cannot mind a young child for a few hours a day (im not talking full time sole care)

wrt young babies though, evidence suggests that for optimal brain development etc it is best if they are cared for by a single caregiver where parent isn't available to do the care giving, hence why nanny is deemed to be a good choice for a baby. Led important for older children.

The basic differences between a nanny and an au pair are that
A) a nanny will have childcare experience
B) a nanny will have references to back up that experience
C) you'll have interviewed a nanny for the post
D) a nanny is being paid minimum wage (or normally significantly above) so it is reasonable to make serious demands on her.

An au pair could be anyone, turns up sight unseen at the airport (though Skyping may change that) and normally has no specific childcare experience, and that's why they're not a good choice for significant childcare provision for a young child.

Of course anyone can call themselves a nanny. And if your existing au pair has been with you, say, for a year, knows your children really well and happens to have seven younger siblings then yes they might be perfectly capable of having sole care (although their legal hours would be a problem). But in general, getting a random teen with no experience to have sole care of your baby for many hours a week for practically no pay is going to be risky, exploitative or both.

Lady Isabella, why would you employ a random teen as an au pair, and why would you choose one without experience? If you have any sense you recruit your au pair as carefully as you would a nanny. I have had au pairs for years and am currently recruiting. My shortlist of 4 girls all 19-21, two are qualified nursery nurses with experience, one is a medical student and one is an agency nanny and in full time education. All have references, crb checks both in home country and I will do the UK one on arrival they will also do the 2 day paediatric first aid course.

Sorry posted to early!
I interview my au pairs, google them, check out their social media and check references. Some posters have trial weekends just like you would a nanny.

A nanny might not have experience, where else would they gain their first post? Yes she will be paid a mimimum wage. An au pair will have set maximum hours and will always be live in including food and all bills.

I can't speak for other nannies, I am 10 years plus experienced with babies and young children. My preferred age is 0-3 and I am educated and qualified and highly recommended and experienced in the age range.

I have first aid, a degree in childcare, child development and education. I raise babies and I do it well, I'm only being smug about it because a my references and experience say so and second because I take offence at people belittling my chosen career. I am passionate about children, and proud of my part in their upbringing not to mention the pride that comes from the trust and faith parents out in you leaving their tiny newborn baby in your care.

I appreciate not every own wants or needs a nanny but those that do should not be slated for it.

Nannies, au pairs, nurseries and childminders all have very different pros and cons and each family needs a unique set of qualities that in their childcare.

A lot of threads on here are veey negative about au pairs but I put that down to the fact that you are more likely to come and have a rant/ask for advice on a forum thwrite a post saying everything's great! If you read threads by people asking for au pair experiences, however, you will find a lot more positive stories.

I think people praise nannies here because they are possibly the most flexible form of childcare. You can have a live-in nanny cover your full working day and babysit until 3am and they can go to bed.
You don't HAVE to havee qualifications to be ananny but most employ someone with extensive childcare experience or someone who is trained - someone with a true passion for the job will have these.

A nanny is by no means the ideal form of childcare for every family but I can see why it would appear that way. But maybe I'm just biased

Hrh - surely you should be employing the nanny as a nanny then, not an au pair?

Artanco, why should I?
A) she wants to be an au pair. This means a couple of hours of childcare and lots of time to travel study and experience the UK whilst having food and her own room plus perks. If she wanted to work a 50 hour week at minimum wage there are plenty of nanny jobs. This is one of my standard interview questions.
B) my hours I offer makes our family a very unattractive job for a professional nanny. Believe me I unsuccessfully advertised for a nanny, during a year of maternity I had no applicants. None. Zero. The agencies I tried blankly said no. I need 20 hours a week, on different days and at different times every week. Welcome to shift work ladies. Its a nightmare.
C) the hours I offer in the setting and circumstances we live makes our family an extremly attractive aupair package. The girls leave with uk CRB first aid, glowing references and a very attractive addition to their CV when they move on. In addition they have all had a brilliant year and are all very much still part of our family.

You get what you pay for.

I have 22 years exp over many settings & have worked worldwide, doing shifts.

Multiple childcare quals, Health & Safety qual, Food Hygiene cert, Business Use class 1 which is obligatory if as a nanny you use your own vehicle.

There is a bit of hysteria and a lot of misinformation around au pairs on mumsnet.

A nanny and an au pair are two different roles though. Generally a nanny is advised where a nanny is the best option. Au pairs have their place, but it's not full-time, sole-charge 50 hours a week.

I've never seen a post where someone says 'I need 8am-9am and 3pm-7pm care for school age children' and people have recommended a nanny. A childminder, after-school club or au pair fit that role and so those are recommended.

Employing someone to do a nanny job, but paying them as an au pair is exploitative. That's generally why au pairs shouldn't look after small babies. Not because they aren't able, but because £4ph is not enough to take on that responsibility.

Hrh - that's your problem. They don't have to work 50 hours for min wage. They can work 50 hrs for a decent wage.

Many people I know here need only 20 hrs a week childcare due to shifts. They have to pay for the flexibility of a live in nanny who will work shifts. Def not min wage. We pay our nanny for 12 hours a week min plus babysitting if she wants. We pay her £18net per hr for the inconvenience of it only being x2 afternoons. We had loads of applicants why wouldn't we, thats over £200 gross and leaves 5 full days and 2 half to work elsewhere if they want

When I first needed childcare, I wanted someone who was going to be in sole care of a 4 month old baby for 9/10 hours a day 4 days a week. To me, that person was not a teenager or someone who did the job casually (an au pair) but someone with qualifications and at least 10 years experience in case anything happened (a nanny). At some point down the line, the by then much older) dcs will just need picking up from school and looking after for a few hours till we get home. That's when we will switch to an au pair.

I au paired for two years (before/after school care) and loved the freedom it gave me, and loved the children I cared for. I was a good au pair but it was never my long term focus, I didn't have any real sense of responsibility that my role in the children's lives would have any lasting impact.

I've since gone back to nannying, and as I'd had a break I didn't think I'd get a job. As it happens, lots of people were keen to employ me and I ended up working in a junior nanny capacity for a family who had once employed nannies (when the children were small), had switched to au pairs. They were so disappointed with what they got (nothing sinister, just not what they wanted), that they switched back to nannies.

Not all nannies are in it for the long haul, just as not all au pairs are in it for the short term, but the vast majority of nannies have made it their career and are very serious about the impact of the things they do in the lives of the little people they care for. That is the difference in my view.

Little lady luna, very good post,thank you!
I deal with alot of nannies and au pairs, i see alot of them through work and socially through my aupairs. There are good and not so good au pairs, equally some brilliant nannies and some who I would not let anywhere near my children.

I registred as a childminder years ago and the training was 6 days of vague discussions whilst playing playdough. I found it shocking and still do. Its great that some childcarers further themselves and do train properly but many (including myself) never did.
I dont think many parents know what the training entails and just trust that people have adequate training when many dont yet can still call themselves a trained experienced childminder / nanny.
Im not slagging the profession off, i still childmind ad hoc and keep my registration going, so i am fully aware how hard work it is and esp childminders are worth every penny you pay them. Its draining, exhausting hard work, and the pressure and paperwork required is daunting. Yet a nanny does none of this with sometimes no training and no inspections yet is raved about and seen as a must have. Again its reassuring to hear there are professional nannies out there who do have adequate training and a professional attitude. Many dont.

I suppose it all depends on what you want in childcare.

I don't care much about qualifications apart from first aid. I do care about having someone who cares for my children, who has a similar outlook on life, children, discipline etc as me, I want someone who fits out lifestyle. That applies to any form of childcare. Qualifications matter as they get older but nobody made me do childcare or education qualifications before I became a parent! For my children when pre-school age all I want is someone who will form a bond with them, jump in muddy muddles with them, get the craft stuff out and go on walks.

We have had in the past a brilliant CM who was a former primary school teacher so was well educated in early years. She was fabulous. But her fabulousness stemmed from her approach and her fit with our life. Yes, she did use her knowledge of early years and primary education. She always had activities to do after school for the older ones and while dd was still pre-school age she taught her to read because dd was showing an interest and she was able to use the model that dd would be using at school. However, the qualifications were not what made us choose that CM.

My nearly ex CM (and I do need to do a dance that she is soon to be ex) has a great CV really. She worked in nurseries for years, was deputy manager. She has everything you'd want on paper. Her background gives the impression of someone very competent. The reality is somewhat different. She has endangered my child, has shown herself to be incompetent when accidents occur, is consistently late to school pick up and my children both young and older have been bored with her because she doesn't leave the house so toddler boy was bored, unexercised and unsocialised and the older ones were bored because there was nothing for them to do after school.

Our current nanny who works 3 days a week for us also has a nursery background but is far more competent! Nannying is new to both her and us so we are taking it bit by bit but so far it is going well and toddler boy is very happy with her. Shit CM is to be replaced next month with another one for the other 2 days for after school for the big ones so we shall see how it goes but I think they will be much happier there and toddler boy is using his 15 hours by having 2 days in a very good private nursery which we know well having sent the other ones there too.

Childcare is a nightmare. I suppose why nannies get suggested a lot for people who need awkward hours is that if you have a good nanny it does make life a lot easier. There are no pick ups of drop offs, they do child related chores so while toddler boy is playing in the garden or having some down time mine does the ironing, folds laundry, throws the hoover round. I can have a late finish and she will have fed the dcs rather than my having to pick them up, go home and then try to make dinner/hope the slow cooker hasn't got too dry during the day.

The aupair thing comes I think from the blurring of lines between nanny and aupair. Traditionally an aupair is a younger person who is coming over to learn the language. I don't think the UK signs up to the official agreement defining aupair duties but there is a list that is quite prescriptive in order to try to curb people abusing aupairs. So traditionally they should be doing light babysitting and help around the home in exchange for their board and a bit of pocket money and sole charge should not have been part of their duties. This has changed, older people come over as aupairs, many have experience and qualifiations and many can do more involved work. However, if they are working longer hours and having sole charge then strictly speaking they should be being employed as a nanny not an aupair and should be paid accordingly. Unfortuately there are people around who are willing to exploit young people. I suggested an aupair to someone recently who was in a tight spot and I thought an aupair would be perfect as she was needing before and after school care for a few months but not full time plus the occasional night time babysitting if she got called out for work. So having someone living in seemed like the perfect solution short term. She thought it was a great idea, looked it up and then started telling other people what this poor aupair would be able to do for her and all for .