Live in nanny requesting extra pay for late nights - how much?

[damselfish]

Hi there,

We have a live in nanny that works 30 hours + one evening babysitting a week. We pay her 8.00 pounds an hour for any over time.

When we have our evening out we are usually home by 11pm or so, if we can last that long! Some weeks we don't use our evening at all. However one evening recently we came home at 4am, it was a really great party and for a few hours we remembered life before our two lovely little boys (aged 6 and 1). Unfortunately our little one was restless that night (he's usually a good sleeper) and our nanny was not particularly pleased about our late (or rather early morning) return. She has since said that if we are going to be out that late she feels it is only fair to be paid extra.

I was wondering if anyone can advise on this, out of opinion or experience. Should we pay her extra? And if so what time should overtime kick in? And should it be charged at the same rate of pay she earns during the day, considering the kids could be fast asleep and she might also be fast asleep. I'm asking because we have a couple of late nights coming up in the next couple of months, possibly an overnighter. Also, with overnighters, can anyone suggest what time the daytime rate starts if the night rate is different?

She's 24 years old and usually stays up pretty late. she also lives with us so if both kids are fast a sleep then theoretically she should be able to go to sleep too, although she tells us she finds it hard to sleep when we're out late and she's looking after the kids...anyway seeking advice as want to be fair.

Thanks very much for any feedback!

She was on duty for the night and may have been unable to sleep due to being concerned about where you were and as your youngest was up during the night. So I would see it as being evening babysitting - was it agreed that it would be the one evening babysitting as per the contract and was how was evening defined? I would say evening is until Midnight at latest unless agreed in advance, so was the 4am time agreed in advance?

If not, then overtime pay or an alternative arrangement such as no babysitting the following week would be reasonable in my view.

If a babysit so you will be home at some point then maybe say babysit till 11 and then anytime after that is at the overtime rate of £8 till you get home even if she is asleep as she is still responsible for your children if any problems come up.

As for the overnight stay most nannies I know get babysit rates till 11 then an overnight fee of say £50/£60 until the normal time the children wake and then the hourly rate kicks in, if it would be a normal working day the second day the hourly overtime rate of £8 from wake up till normal start time.

If she has a really bad night with them waking often then maybe top up the overnight fee, as I said she will be responsible for them even if they are all asleep if anything does happen.

Hope that makes sense.

Did you keep her updated with your ETA home? I would be majorly peed off if you stayed out until 4am with a restless baby and no contact from the parents. Had she been working that day or due to work the following day? I think you took advantage tbh.

I agree with nannynick that midnight seems a good cut off for babysitting.

Hi nannynick, no, wasn't agreed as what time we'd be back. We didn't expect to be out that late. I think until midnight seems fair enough in the future, with overtime kicking in after that. As I said we very often don't ask her to babysit in the evening even though it's in her contract. We are also very felixible as to what evening it is as she has more social enagagments than us and if it's just my husband and I going for a drink or dinner we're not usually bothered which evening.

Thanks for your feedback

Gee nannies don't cost much in the uk
Our au pairs do over nights. They do get more than $12 an hour. Live in. We don't get social time out routinely. Maybe once every 6 months. Beyond that I was working some nights and lates. Dh not home. I agree that although they can sleep,often they would more cat nap while I was at work. Door open to listen out. So if your nanny worked during the day, then till midnight (4am) I'd say she has a right to be grumpy. I do hope she wasn't working the next day too

Thanks eeyore12, that does make sense.

Did she know you were going to be back at 4am? It doesn't sound like it and if not you need to apologise, buy her some flowers/chocolates and never let it happen again. It's outrageous that you would allow her to think you would be back at 11pm as normal and then not rock up until 4am! Completely unacceptable.

Going forward, yes she needs to be paid for overtime. An evening babysit is usually from 7/7:30-11/12. So she needs to be paid overtime from around 11-12am. It will depend on what time she needs to be there in the morning. There should be at least 8 hours between shifts so if she needs to be there at before 8am, then anything past 11pm is 'overtime'.

For a full night you will usually pay a discounted rate, particularly with a live-in nanny. Maybe around £30-£40 from midnight until wake-up time. If she has a bad night with them then the decent thing to do would be to top that up.

My bosses always inform me of when they will be back and text when their on their way or of may be late. 8 pounds is not a lot for extra babysits.

I get 10 pounds extra weekdays and 12 pounds on weekends.

Thanks purplepumpkins, are you live in by the way?

There should be 11 hours between shifts, legally.

Hello, outraged from Leeds. She wasn't expecting us to be back at 11pm but agreed we should have let her know when. Didn't want to wake her. Late nights never been a problem before.

We quite often put the kids to bed before we go out and didn't leave until 9pm that night. I think we'll pay from midnight in future tho regardless of when we leave.

Cheers

PS. She wasn't working the day before or after...we were the ones that suffered and fair enough...our choice!!

It's impressive that you've got the energy to be going out at 9pm with a one year old tbf. I'm in my pj's at 8:30pm these days

My bosses did this to me, almost the exact same timings. I didn't mind being flexible previously because my bosses would let me finish 15/30 minutes early some days if they knew I had evening plans. But they completely took the piss that night and I had to have the children the following day too. Whenever they have asked me to do it again, I have given them how much I want to be paid, and every time they have decided not to use me for late night/overnight. Fine by me, I won't be doing it at a reduced rate again because it gives them more reason to take the piss.
I am the same as your nanny, I do not sleep very well when I'm on duty because I'm listening out for them with one ear and listening out for any strange things going on in the house with the other. Also, I couldn't just pop out in the evening if I wanted to, so yes I should be paid while I'm required to stay in.

I'd have been extremely pissed with a 4 am roll in!

Problem is if the nanny doesn't know what time you are back she doesn't know what time she is 'off duty' ESP if normally 11pm

Ie if I was woken up 1am By screaming baby I would assume parents would deal with them as should have been back - and possibly try and go back to sleep

To have a child carry on crying I would have gotten out of bed and prob gone to your bedroom and seen you were not there and then sorted out upset child

She is probably pissed off as 1) you were very late and didn't ask/tell her 2) you haven't paid her extra

If I'm night nannying I get paid hourly as Obv up feeding etc

If Im babysitting / staying over then bs rate till midnight and sleepover rate 12-7am

She won't sleep the same as she is in charge, even if she is in bed....

If your children are awake then u need to pay her £8 for every hour past say 11pm on her usual late night.

If they are asleep then I reckon £7 is fair.

Overnight if on a normal late night would be from say 11pm till her normal day starts, say 7am.... so for the 8 hours I would say £50

Think as it was her only working session. Then I wouldn't feel too bad
Granted should have told her you may be late. But out after 9.. Home by 12? You couldn't see a movie and get dinner in that time!
So don't lose too much sleep she could sleep the next day!

I think you're missing the point Chloe. The nanny had to work 5 hours over what was expected with no question if it was okay, and no update throughout the evening. No matter what she's doing the next day, maybe she just didn't want to be up all night with a baby? Overtime is not compulsory, she should have been given the choice.

I would pay an overnight rate from 11pm onwards and not have her come into work at the normal time the next morning for the simple reason she probably slept with one eye and one ear open just in case.

I would be furious if my employers did this! If I didn't know what time they would be home, I would be awake until they got home. I would need to know I am off duty. I dint babysit often for my employers, when I do I leave the monitor on the stairs with sound turned up (I am in the loft conversion) and my door open. When they get home I shut my bedroom door so I don't hear them when they get up in the morning. I don't go to sleep until they get home, I could not go to work on 4 1/2 hours sleep if they got in at 4am.

Luckily, my employers would never disrespect me in this way, if they are going to be 10 minutes late home, they let me know as soon as they know. (I'm contracted until 7:30pm but my MB usually gets in at 6:30 and I am done, if she is not going to be home until 6:40 she will let me know!)